Israel ESC United - LIVE from Tel Aviv - GRAND FINAL DISCUSSION

[Carian]

Your hypothesis was that the juries get too influenced by the buzz and odds. I think it works in the opposite direction. That people in juries create buzz and influence odds. The large gap is not a proof of that, but a proof that Sweden takes the juries too seriously when selecting songs. I'm sure fans of Jon Henrik Fjällgren (another sami singer) were very happy to see Norway doing fine among viewers, since Jon got very few jury votes in the Swedish selection, much like Norway today.

people in juries create buzz and influence odds.

Excuse me? Juries are not known for long long time. Only couple of weeks before ESC juries are being selected. When this year juries were selected, Netherlands, Russia and Sweden were already dominating betting odds for weeks. So, am I living in a parallel world or you are simply mistaken? Besides, JURIES ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DISCUSS THEIR VOTING. And how could 205 people from 41 countries influece odds? Oh, come on. I am wasting my time with this argument.

 

[Carian]

So, according to the juries Norway shouldn't even qualify

Please, ESC gods, make those juries go away.

 

[VirginiaVision]

WOW! Eurovision is always such a rush haha. Here are my thoughts on the night (afternoon/evening for me)

Sooooo happy this won! I'm kinda surprised that it didn't win by much of a margin. At the end of the night, it was something the televote and jury could agree on and I don't think too many people will be too upset with this result

I told my parents that this would do well, but my mom was still surprised (and annoyed) when the televote was read out. I wonder how Sergey feels coming 3rd twice?

I will forever treasure the moment they announced Norway's whopping televote number; Alexandra's reaction was precious. What a worthy televote winner!

Maybe I've developed some anti-Sweden bias, but I just don't get what the juries are seeing in this entry that I don't see. On another note, my mom pointed out how weird it was to see one songwriter top the jury vote and be near the bottom with his two songs

I'm amazed that this one was a hit with juries and a flop with viewers. I thought for sure it would be the other way around. The guitarist seemed pretty confused too lol

Did anyone else notice the technical blooper? Right at the start of the first chorus we got a shot of a camera guy and a Victor-less bridge that clearly wasn't meant to be in the frame

San Marino's best result yet! Well deserved!

Well that did much worse than expected...wonder what went wrong exactly. I know my dad really didn't care for her tone, but I love it since it's so unique. Maybe juries and televoters didn't like her voice as much as the fandom did?

I honestly feel bad for Spain. This song was really strong but they just can't get enough support to get out of the 20s range. I personally think their downfall this year was the staging. It took away from Miki's natural charisma and was just too much going on at once.

I don't know how Belarus' jury votes were constructed, but I'm glad that they gave 12 points to Israel just for Kobi's reaction. It was so wholesome and warmed my heart, and I wasn't even much of a fan of their entry.

Congrats on not coming last! (I swear I'm not trying to be passive aggressive)

So I don't know exactly why juries marked this down, but my mom made a point I had never thought of before: she said she would have marked down for not being able to understand most of what Zena was saying. Do some jurors mark down for that? Was that one of Belarus' problems? Hhhmmm...

This did not deserve to come last. I'm not even a huge fan of the song and I'm baffled. I feel really bad for all the UK Eurofans; they were really proud of their entry and it really deserved to do so much better, especially with the juries. I send my love to all the Eurovision fanatics of the UK

 

[Daybreak]

Somewhat flabbergasted by how well Storm did, especially in the semi lol (even ahead of Greece?). But it was the kind of "generic, yet accessible" song that often does well in ESC, and its success in Estonia was already somewhat of a hint. Hilariously enough, I think it actually might've stood out in this year's lineup On another note, I'm quite thankful that Australia ultimately didn't do better than Estonia last year. I think it's fair.

Congratulations to North Macedonia, Slovenia, Norway... Switzerland for returning to the final with a fourth place, wow! ...and Soldi is the first time in 10 years one of my favorites is in top 3!

 

[Carian]

Belarus was saved in the first semi by the juries. If it was up to the people, Zena would have stayed back...

 

[Pawhlen]

So another ESC-season has ended, so now it´s only about 5-6 months until a new season begins and culminating with ESC in Amsterdam or Rottendam in May next year, see you all then in January-February

 

[JensJohan]

people in juries create buzz and influence odds.

Excuse me? Juries are not known for long long time. Only couple of weeks before ESC juries are being selected. When this year juries were selected, Netherlands, Russia and Sweden were already dominating betting odds for weeks. So, am I living in a parallel world or you are simply mistaken? Besides, JURIES ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DISCUSS THEIR VOTING. And how could 205 people from 41 countries influece odds? Oh, come on. I am wasting my time with this argument.

I didn't mean the individual jurors but the community of professionals from which jurors are selected, a community that is much much smaller than the general public, but still has a very large influence on what songs people talk about.

 

[nofuxCZ]

Split results by each country also available here in more user friendly form than on the official website https://eurovisionworld.com/eurovision/2019

 

[strupberry]

I am starting to hate juries. Really. They can be much more political than public vote and I think that these experts are influenced by the odds. Majority of the viewership doesn't follow this competition so closely, so they are really less likely influenced by odds. I think that these odds and various Wiwibloggs importantly shape the opinion of professional juries. Wanna proof? Look at Sweden.

Indeed. And not only that, they seem to have a 1001 bias, their criteria and preferences seem to be too subjective to have such weight.

I am browsing the detailed jury votes of different countries, and their votes are all over the place. Sometimes not even consistent between the two (pretty equal) performances.

For example, there's one Czech jury member who put Slovenia as 16/16 in semi and 6/25 in the final.

 

[JensJohan]

For example, there's one Czech jury member who put Slovenia as 16/16 in semi and 6/25 in the final.

Slovenia grew on me too in the final. I had it top 3 in the end, together with Switzerland and Italy.

 

[tuorem]

The new way of revealing the televoting part might be more thrilling, but it's unfortunate not to clearly see the viewers' ranking anymore.

For instance, I thought North Macedonia had flopped, but they actually didn't since Tamara was 12th. Same for Serhat.

 

[Leydan]

It masked the fact the juries had screwed over the publics favourite also^


I don't like it purely for how "cruel" it is towards the singers. Build them up, and then bring them crashing down. However it is probably here to stay tbh, for the fact is helps mask the clear differences between juries and televotes.

 

[Teaisloveable]

It's definitely divisive.

Does it make the show more tense? Yes, I think it does. Though at the expense of the artists themselves. Seeing some of the reactions (EG: Czech Republic) was quite heartbreaking.

I think however you reveal the results there will be pros and cons, I don't doubt that the EBU will experiment further eventually, but I imagine this format will stay for at least a few ywars to come.

 

[tuorem]

Seeing some of the reactions (EG: Czech Republic) was quite heartbreaking.

Not gonna lie, I liked that dramatic part The Czechs weren't the only ones, Michela also got her shot while receiving her 20 points... At first, I thought they would only show the acts that did really well in the televote, but they seemed to film some precisely because of the gap in terms of points.

Only the acts of the juries' top ten are guaranteed to react in front of the camera regardless of their amounts of points it seems.

 

[ZoboCamel]

One takeaway from the results this year: perhaps the fan bubble (including myself, analysts, blogs and everyone else) has been putting too much emphasis on staging when predicting the results.

Looking back to rehearsals and throughout the semis, there was so much hype about the staging from Azerbaijan, Georgia, Austria, France and then Australia in particular. I imagine the staging did end up helping those entries (most of them finishing around 2-5 positions higher than most people expected pre-rehearsal)... but it also wasn't quite as impactful as a lot of people were assuming, with Aze/Aus/Fra landing some distance away from the win and Georgia/Austria a few spots out of qualification.

On the other hand, you've got early favourites Italy and the Netherlands ending in the top two spots despite the disappointment around their initial staging reveals. Similarly, Russia ended up with the third place that a lot of people were expecting to begin with. And while I'm not sure people were really predicting Norway's televote win regardless, it came particularly out of left field given all of the criticisms about their dark, prop-free staging.

So it feels like, at least this year, juries and televoters alike paid more attention to the songs themselves than the way they were presented. As to whether that'll continue next year... who knows?

 

[RainyWoods]

It masked the fact the juries had screwed over the publics favourite also^


I don't like it purely for how "cruel" it is towards the singers. Build them up, and then bring them crashing down. However it is probably here to stay tbh, for the fact is helps mask the clear differences between juries and televotes.

You might be onto something here. Imagine the reaction live in the hall had they revealed the votes in score order and Norway were revealed as the public winner right at the last second. The hall would have erupted. I didn't realise Norway had won the public vote until after the show had finished and I looked at everything deeper. I think they should go back to how they had things before. Norway won the televote last night and that should have at least been acknowledged and celebrated properly (also San Marino's top 10 x).

The tension for me actually was gone as soon as it was revealed that The Netherlands had beaten Italy. I knew Sweden wasn't going to do great with the televote and Macedonia wasn't either (though 12th actually isn't bad at all).

 

[LakZaNokte]

One takeaway from the results this year: perhaps the fan bubble (including myself, analysts, blogs and everyone else) has been putting too much emphasis on staging when predicting the results.

Looking back to rehearsals and throughout the semis, there was so much hype about the staging from Azerbaijan, Georgia, Austria, France and then Australia in particular. I imagine the staging did end up helping those entries (most of them finishing around 2-5 positions higher than most people expected pre-rehearsal)... but it also wasn't quite as impactful as a lot of people were assuming, with Aze/Aus/Fra landing some distance away from the win and Georgia/Austria a few spots out of qualification.

On the other hand, you've got early favourites Italy and the Netherlands ending in the top two spots despite the disappointment around their initial staging reveals. Similarly, Russia ended up with the third place that a lot of people were expecting to begin with. And while I'm not sure people were really predicting Norway's televote win regardless, it came particularly out of left field given all of the criticisms about their dark, prop-free staging.

So it feels like, at least this year, juries and televoters alike paid more attention to the songs themselves than the way they were presented. As to whether that'll continue next year... who knows?

Influence of staging has been in downfall for years now, at least when it comes to winners.
It is still about the songs, and it should be that way.

Good/intersting staging can help u with qualificntio to final, and with the overall result but, judging by last few years, only to certain extent.
The juries seem to be least interested in stagings, it may bring u few more votes with audience only.

Also, I have noticed since I don’t listen to the songs prior to live show, that my impressions often do not match current mood in forum. Examples are Switzerland and Australia, for this year. I said right away the songs just aren’t good enough but also noticed many had these two as contenders for the top 3.

It’s different when u listen to studio versions for months and when u hear/see something 1st time in live. Hard to explain entire phenomenon but it is there.

 

[Daybreak]

As someone who doesn't watch rehearsals or any other sneak peeks, if you see the performances only once (or twice if they make the final) paying attention to staging details is simply impossible (unless it's particularly in your face/over the top). Especially if you also hear a lot of the songs fully or even the first time during the live shows, you'd probably be mostly focusing on the music to begin with.

 

[Edweis]

France's televote 12 points went to Israel, which is... not surprising as Israel is the 2nd country we give the most points to.
In the semi we gave it to Portugual and 10 to Iceland.

I still don't understand Czech Republic jury/televote ratio, that's one of the song I expected the most to do well in televote and so-so in jury.
That being said, I'm still in favor of a 50/50 jury and televote participation. Each year we have songs killed by juries and saved by televote or the contrary, getting rid of one of them wouldn't do them any justice.

John's reaction to the televoting was sad. I think the hosts put to much emphasis on how many points he needed to win. Getting 93 in place of 253 was kinda ridiculous.
Even if the new reveal is interesting, it's quite chaotic, It's harder to see who did well in televote.

The staging is mostly important to those who knew the songs beforehand. Or, in case of Australia, when they're out of the box. When you're a casual viewer (as I've been for years), you may be marked by some stagings, but it's definitely something that won't bring down a performance because you're too focused on the song in itself.

 

[hawadharma]

Eurovision 2019 X Game Of Thrones

So..
1. Jon Snow eventually takes the Iron Throne, followed closely by Samwell Tarly
2. The lords of the houses wanted Tyrion Lannister to rule, followed closely by Sansa Stark
3. Surprisingly the common people wanted Bran Stark to rule, then only Jon Snow
4. Other popular characters near to win the throne include Jaime Lannister and Arya Stark
5. Despite being evil, Cersei Lannister and Night King still in the Top 10 of the claim to Iron Throne
6. Daenerys is nowhere near the Iron Throne, not by the lords of the houses or the common people standard

P/s: Just for fun, don't take it seriously. I just found it fascinating how this youtuber can crossover 2 of my favorite things like that