Kazakhstan KAZAKHSTAN 2018 - Not taking part

[Gera11]

Yasssss finally we'll have Their music is super hot, hopefully they won't go on an route with foreign composers and relatively safe entries

 

[Sean]

Is this Channel 31 even an associate member? So far only Khabar TV is from my understanding, and EBU blocked them so far so I take these "news" with a grain of salt.

From what I understand they are the first broadcaster in Kazakhstan to officially submit an application to the EBU for full membership. Some sites are falsely reporting it as a EBU-confirmed debut in 2019 when they are not looking into it until after Christmas...

Here's my interpretation anyway...

http://escunited.com/2017/12/22/kazakhstan-negotiations-to-debut-in-eurovision-2019/

 

[A-lister]

Well, the only Juries who vote politically are most of the EX-UDssR Juries. The other ones seemed to be pretty unpolitically imo with a few exceptions.

That's really arguable tbh, and why should "eastern countries" be punished when they put an effort unlike many western countries? Many of the Western/Central countries put no effort and then cried about "unfair voting" and now juries are their to help them out, that's not really a good solution either.

Yes, there was and still is a problem with diaspora voting in ESC (Russia being one of the biggest beneficiaries surely), but I think breaking down the televotes in the past years they are even less biased and predictable than the jury votes are now (apart for some obvious cases) and also why should be punished because they happen to have a Russian minority?

 

[cegs5]

Well, the only Juries who vote politically are most of the EX-UDssR Juries. The other ones seemed to be pretty unpolitically imo with a few exceptions.

Tell that to Sergey Lazarev... he was robbed by the "western" juries. Note that I didn't like his entry, but the anti Russian jury voting was pretty obvious imo. Had Sweden sent the same thing, 12s would have been thrown.

 

[Realest]

Tell that to Sergey Lazarev... he was robbed by the "western" juries. Note that I didn't like his entry, but the anti Russian jury voting was pretty obvious imo. Had Sweden sent the same thing, 12s would have been thrown.

There was no Anti-Russian Juryvoting towards Sergey, these are only Conspiracies. Juries can give only Points to 10/25 Coutries and give 0 to the Remaining. So it is not politically to give 0 Points to Russia. 75% gave 0 to and 90% gave 0 to . for Example. Were they politically too? The only Votes that were politically/friendly regarding Russia were those 12 Points from .

Maybe you remember 2013 when the Azeri Jury put Dina Bottom5 and prevented her from getting Points despite being 2nd in the Azeri Televote. After that the azeri politician Mamedjarow apologized by the russian Politician Lawrow for the 0 Points. Since then Azeri Juries always put Russia on 1st Place, probably because they were forced to. Also the belarussian Jury randomly celebrates very often Russian Entries, even in 2014 where Russia was faraway from being a Favorite. An Greece And Cyprus only gave their Highpoints because of Dimitris Kontopolos. Also 2014 they gave very huge 8 Points to Russia and 2013 when Azerbaijan worked with him, 12 Points. So, Russia is not the Victim of a political Voting, as tons of butthurt Russians claim, they are the biggest benefitter

And of course Lithuanian and Georgian Juries who put Russia on last place were politically, but then, even if they were objective and put Russia on lets say 16th Place, is would be still 0 Points. Btw the most Political Vote 2016 came from Russia itself, when they gave 12 Points to Iveta for having the "right" nationality, if you remember. Also those 10 Points to Samra who probably hit 3 Tones for every Minute look Suspicious. And Randomly, The gay Singer from Israel was Last and Jamala was Second Last

 

[DaFlo]

Realest truly one special kind of anti russian troll lel

 

[Realest]

That's really arguable tbh, and why should "eastern countries" be punished when they put an effort unlike many western countries? Many of the Western/Central countries put no effort and then cried about "unfair voting" and now juries are their to help them out, that's not really a good solution either.

Yes, there was and still is a problem with diaspora voting in ESC (Russia being one of the biggest beneficiaries surely), but I think breaking down the televotes in the past years they are even less biased and predictable than the jury votes are now (apart for some obvious cases) and also why should be punished because they happen to have a Russian minority?

I dont say that voting for a neighbour is (always) Political/forbidden. I mean the most Political Votes come from Countries like Armenia and Azerbaijan for hating each other, putting Russia on first Place for Reasons that dont have to do with Music (Rather Political Pressure), or Armenia putting Israel 2ndlast 3 Times in a Row for politically supporting Azerbaijan and not acknowledging the armenian Genozide etc..I cant remember having seen a political Juryvote from western Countries since 2014. But this is clearly not about Discussing if Juries make sense or not. Of Course Russia often Put more effort in their Entries than Central European Non-Block-Countries, but that doesnt change the Fact, that Russia has unfair advantages. This was only a Side-Reason. But as I said the main reason is, that in the past we had always political Troubles with nearly every Ex-UDSSR-Country and thats why I dont want another to have in ESC.

 

[Realest]

Realest truly one special kind of anti russian troll lel

No, im no Anti-Russian Troll. Im neutral.

 

[cegs5]

There was no Anti-Russian Juryvoting towards Sergey, these are only Conspiracies. Juries can give only Points to 10/25 Coutries and give 0 to the Remaining. So it is not politically to give 0 Points to Russia. 75% gave 0 to and 90% gave 0 to . for Example. Were they politically too? The only Votes that were politically/friendly regarding Russia were those 12 Points from .

Maybe you remember 2013 when the Azeri Jury put Dina Bottom5 and prevented her from getting Points despite being 2nd in the Azeri Televote. After that the azeri politician Mamedjarow apologized by the russian Politician Lawrow for the 0 Points. Since then Azeri Juries always put Russia on 1st Place, probably because they were forced to. Also the belarussian Jury randomly celebrates very often Russian Entries, even in 2014 where Russia was faraway from being a Favorite. An Greece And Cyprus only gave their Highpoints because of Dimitris Kontopolos. Also 2014 they gave very huge 8 Points to Russia and 2013 when Azerbaijan worked with him, 12 Points. So, Russia is not the Victim of a political Voting, as tons of butthurt Russians claim, they are the biggest benefitter

And of course Lithuanian and Georgian Juries who put Russia on last place were politically, but then, even if they were objective and put Russia on lets say 16th Place, is would be still 0 Points. Btw the most Political Vote 2016 came from Russia itself, when they gave 12 Points to Iveta for having the "right" nationality, if you remember. Also those 10 Points to Samra who probably hit 3 Tones for every Minute look Suspicious. And Randomly, The gay Singer from Israel was Last and Jamala was Second Last

Wait, all the stories you are mentioning has nothing to do with my post. My point was that political voting doesn't come only from EX USSR countries as you pointed out previously.
So, for you is not political that some countries blanked Sergey as a block in a particular tense year between "western countries" and Russia, with a kind of entry that usually gets a lot of support. OK then
I never denied that some ex soviet countries and Russia itself have their own stories of political voting as well... I just clarified they are not the only bad boys to tell off.

 

[Realest]

So, for you is not political that some countries blanked Sergey as a block in a particular tense year between "western countries" and Russia, with a kind of entry that usually gets a lot of support. OK then

Which western Countries do you mean?

 

[A-lister]

I dont say that voting for a neighbour is (always) Political/forbidden. I mean the most Political Votes come from Countries like Armenia and Azerbaijan for hating each other, putting Russia on first Place for Reasons that dont have to do with Music (Rather Political Pressure), or Armenia putting Israel 2ndlast 3 Times in a Row for politically supporting Azerbaijan and not acknowledging the armenian Genozide etc..I cant remember having seen a political Juryvote from western Countries since 2014. But this is clearly not about Discussing if Juries make sense or not. Of Course Russia often Put more effort in their Entries than Central European Non-Block-Countries, but that doesnt change the Fact, that Russia has unfair advantages. This was only a Side-Reason. But as I said the main reason is, that in the past we had always political Troubles with nearly every Ex-UDSSR-Country and thats why I dont want another to have in ESC.

Well, I don't agree that the Western juries are very unbiased, but that's maybe a different discussion, but what you suggest is that a country should be blocked from entering because of potential diaspora voting? I don't really think it's fair, atleast we should give them a try before getting ahead of ourselves. Yes there is a "risk" Russia will end up with 12 in televotes, but other than that I don't see having that many "conflicts" with various countries as others have in ESC (as you pointed out), so I don't see atleast that kind of bias.

 

[Leydan]

It will be hot to see in esc finally. Hopefully they don't just send safe western ballad/pop songs by Swedish authors and actually show their music.

Also on the point of voting for Russia. Tbh I totally see Realest point, Russian diasporas are notorious for voting for Russia and the one in Kazakhstan is HUGE. Will be annoying that Russias position will be eased even further but I am open to being pleasantly surprised - I don't think this should block them joining esc.

 

[Realest]

Well, I don't agree that the Western juries are very unbiased, but that's maybe a different discussion, but what you suggest is that a country should be blocked from entering because of potential diaspora voting? I don't really think it's fair, atleast we should give them a try before getting ahead of ourselves. Yes there is a "risk" Russia will end up with 12 in televotes, but other than that I don't see having that many "conflicts" with various countries as others have in ESC (as you pointed out), so I don't see atleast that kind of bias.

As I said, with the Diaspora, this is only a side-effect, but ok, lets see if Kazakhstan is in the Same League as Azerbaijan, Russia, Armenia etc.. regarding the unneccesarily Politisation as I fear.

 

[A-lister]

As I said, with the Diaspora, this is only a side-effect, but ok, lets see if Kazakhstan is in the Same League as Azerbaijan, Russia, Armenia etc.. regarding the unneccesarily Politisation as I fear.

Well, I can see the issue with diaspora voting (the countries that would benefit most from Kazakhstan entering in terms of diaspora votes would be Russia, Ukraine, Belarus followed by Germany and Poland actually), as for political voting there might be a slight risk for Russia and some "cultural points" for Azerbaijan, but this is actually more speculative, atleast Kazakhstan doesn't have much conflicts with other countries as you can see in the Armenia-Azerbaijan case for instance.

 

[Sabiondo]

Well, I can see the issue with diaspora voting (the countries that would benefit most from Kazakhstan entering in terms of diaspora votes would be Russia, Ukraine, Belarus followed by Germany and Poland actually), as for political voting there might be a slight risk for Russia and some "cultural points" for Azerbaijan

+ If dare to comeback, then they will get 10-8 automatic points from as they are Turkish brothers culturally!

 

[GRE]

We all know the points of televoting:
12 to Russia
10 to Azerbaijan
8 to Turkey
7 to Ukraine.

 

[DenizESC]

I say bring them only if they can spice up the contest. No cliche Western ballads pls.

 

[Stiven]

Tell that to Sergey Lazarev... he was robbed by the "western" juries. Note that I didn't like his entry, but the anti Russian jury voting was pretty obvious imo. Had Sweden sent the same thing, 12s would have been thrown.

As someone who hangs out with actual professional musicians and who talked to them about esc 2016 the general consensus was that they were too soft on him.
Because if my professional acquaintances, friends and family(one of whom was already a juror this year) voted the Macedonian jury ranking would have looked like this:

Juror A:
1-
...
26-
Juror B:
1-
...
26-
Juror C:
1-
...
26-
Juror D:
1-
...
26-
Juror E:
1-
...
26-

And I'm not making this up 2016 really was that hated.

 

[DenizESC]

That doesn't look biased AT ALL...

 

[randajad]

Ew, no.