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Live EUROVISION SONG CONTEST 2022 FINAL DISCUSSION

Sean

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Please use this thread to discuss rehearsals in general and also to follow along with all of the live shows in Turin.

Matt, Melanie and Roy from the ESC United team will be LIVE in Turin over the coming days, with yours truly joining them on the ground in the coming days.

Make sure to join Matt for the round up of Eurovision 2022 rehearsals from 10:00 CET, LIVE on Youtube. Links to all live streams are below;

DAY 1

DAY 2

DAY 3

DAY 4

DAY 5

DAY 6

DAY 7

For individual countries' reactions and interviews, please check out the specific country thread.

Make sure to also follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Twitch and our new TikTok account for all of the latest behind the scenes and reaction from Turin!

>>> Click HERE for the Eurovision 2022 rehearsal schedule <<<
 
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Mainshow

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My apologies, but if that sun makes it impossible for competitors to translate their originally designed performance on stage, then this is not something irrelevant and they really don't care for green room or waterfalls if their performance would appear worse live on TV.

Also, these competitors and national broadcasters have hired other artists, graphic designers, animators and choreographers, and they drafted their staging ideas around the original concept of the stage. If they have to change their original ideas and draft new designs and plans, that also bears some additional costs. Who will reimburse those costs to the competitors.

Sorry, but this is unprofessional. Good intentions, effort by the host, I appreciate all of these things, but this was a foreseeable technical issue from the get-go and there must have been a back-up plan.

I fully agree with you.

Since you implictly referred back to what I wrote (water, green room etc), I just want to clarify that it was "just me speaking as an individual fan". I was really eager to see the kinetic sun in motion/action since I loved the stage design but since I like "simplicity" as well and after seeing a few pictures from today and yesterday, I think that I can still have great shows and being entertained by the performances.
Thus, I don´t think that fans should be really angry about it or seeing it as a "complete disaster" since we will still be getting a great show (in my opinion).

Of course, it´s a completely different story for delegations, the artists and everyone involved since their work, money and pland didn´t pay off and even have to be scrapped.
 

Chrisiam

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Correct me if I'm wrong but, isn't the problem with the backdrop not working properly a little more of an issue than it just meaning that some act's staging needs to be altered? Because if they have to switch to the back lights isn't there the possibility that they might need to redo some of the camera placement as said routines were plotted out without that extra light in mind?
 

nudiecrudi

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My apologies, but if that sun makes it impossible for competitors to translate their originally designed performance on stage, then this is not something irrelevant and they really don't care for green room or waterfalls if their performance would appear worse live on TV?

Also, these competitors and national broadcasters have hired other artists, graphic designers, animators and choreographers, and they drafted their staging ideas around the original concept of the stage. If they have to change their original ideas and draft new designs and plans, that also bears some additional costs. Who will reimburse those costs to the competitors.

Sorry, but this is unprofessional. Good intentions, effort by the host, I appreciate all of these things, but this was a foreseeable technical issue from the get-go and a back-up plan was obligatory.

By saying "It is as it is and it won't be fixed" the organisers show disrespect to others' hard work while expecting their work to be appreciated and not criticised, otherwise they'll call it ethnic prejudice, anti-Italian sentiment, whatever. Bollocks.
We still dont know that much Polly, do we? Only Netherlands has complained hardly until know.
If something happens two days before rehearsals the only thing to do is trying to resolve the problem.
Who is going to pay for extra costs? Insurances excist for these problems.
 

marty

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alot of work for the producers of the show and some of the delegations coming up. but in the end we will get a great show for sure.
 

ItsJaden

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One thing i don't get tho... the sun not rotating is one aspect of the prop and it's fine if it doesn't work imo, i mean, yea, would love to see it work, but it's ok if it doesn't. but the led screens on it should be working right? That would at least solve a big part of the problems. Surely the LED screens can be fixed
 
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We still dont know that much Polly, do we? Only Netherlands has complained hardly until know.
If something happens two days before rehearsals the only thing to do is trying to resolve the problem.
Who is going to pay for extra costs? Insurances excist for these problems.

I hope everything would be fine, but it has also been reported on CRO ESC fora by the people attending rehersals that the backdrop isn't functioning as well.

E.g. during Portugal's performance, letters are missing from the lyrics. The song's title appears as "Sauda". 🤣

Nudie, I'm sorry, the insurances and all, fine, but really, if Mahmood appears on stage with lyrics like "Brivi", you would be infuriated as well, my friend. 🤣
 

nudiecrudi

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I hope everything would be fine, but it has also been reported on CRO ESC fora by the people attending rehersals that the backdrop isn't functioning as well.

E.g. during Portugal's performance, letters are missing from the lyrics. The song's title appears as "Sauda". 🤣

Nudie, I'm sorry, the insurances and all, fine, but really, if Mahmood appears on stage with lyrics like "Brivi", you would be infuriated as well, my friend. 🤣
Polly, please. Dont delude me. Is this an argument? We are talking about very first rehearsals. A part the kinetic sun problem, the other ones are nothing. We have heard of similiar things during past years rehearsals. But this kind of problems are easily solvable
 

marty

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I hope everything would be fine, but it has also been reported on CRO ESC fora by the people attending rehersals that the backdrop isn't functioning as well.

E.g. during Portugal's performance, letters are missing from the lyrics. The song's title appears as "Sauda". 🤣

Nudie, I'm sorry, the insurances and all, fine, but really, if Mahmood appears on stage with lyrics like "Brivi", you would be infuriated as well, my friend. 🤣
thats what rehearsals are here for. the bigger the show the more technical problems appear. thats just super normal.
 

midnightsun

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I feel sorry for Francesca, she has been under attack on social media

This. I‘ve read several rude comments towards her, this is unbearable. Something not her fault could ruin her career forever.
People are overreacting much. There is ALWAYS a possibility that something can go wrong during the pre-Eurovision days. Failure is human. And I‘m sorry to say but I don’t have any pity with delegations that don’t have a plan B and rely on everything to turn out perfectly.

I'm sure we will see a great show in Turin and I‘m looking very much forward to it and anyone saying negative things about Italy or even certain people who don’t have anything to do with that failure - just keep your self-righteous comments to yourself and let us enjoy Eurovision.
 

theditz83

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One thing i don't get tho... the sun not rotating is one aspect of the prop and it's fine if it doesn't work imo, i mean, yea, would love to see it work, but it's ok if it doesn't. but the led screens on it should be working right? That would at least solve a big part of the problems. Surely the LED screens can be fixed
It's been mentioned numerous times already. One side of the sun had lights, the other side had an LED screen. The side that is facing forward is the lights side, so the LED screen is probably perfectly functional but it's just facing the back of the stage and is therefore completely useless unless they can find a way to turn it. But then, the people that didn't want LEDs in their staging and wanted to use the lights might get irritated.

Tbh I don't know how much of a difference it's going to make - the fandom will go insane over the next week, but the vast majority of other viewers on the nights won't notice or care that much I'm sure.
 

DanielLuis

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But the show will go on, even without it. Maybe some stagings need to be modified but seems for someone that it's a complete disaster which has compromised the entire ESC organization.
Honestly if they manage to turn the Rings around so the LED's face the cameras it really won't be bad at all.
No one watching the show will notice that something weird happened with the stage, most delegations will probably manage to have their initial staging plans intact, or easily adapt, etc. I personally think it would probably be even better than the rings turning because that would just be a distraction in most performances (and very likely be way too loud and drown out the audio of the songs somewhats, for sure those things weren't silent while moving).

If the rings have to stay the way they are now though it would be really detrimental to the show. It's just a complete eye sore that really looks like a black hole engulfing center stage, and feels out of place in 90% of the performances.
 

crashworld

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At the end of the day, it's still a competition. Every delegation/artist would still want to have their performance stands out so they can stand a chance to qualify or win. Just imagine the time, efforts and money spent to get their staging plan finalized, only to know they can't execute it to its full potential can be really disappointing.

Even though this is unforeseen circumstance and no one wants this to happen. But I think it's still understandable for delegations or fans to be upset with what happened as there's a likelihood some of these artists may have their qualifying/winning chances impacted. But of course, name-calling/throwing insults towards the organizers etc is definitely a big no-no.

I have read that the delegations/artists from Netherlands, Latvia, Lithuania and Moldova have publicly expressed their disappointment/displeasure of varying degree about the staging issue. And we never know some of the delegations could have lodged their complaints privately.

Let's just hope everything will turn out fine eventually.

On a side note, to be honest, I don't even know why I bother that much when this year's contest has been one of my least favourites. Still deciding if I should stay up to catch the shows live or just watch them in the evening after work.
 

Ajeje Brazorf

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My apologies, but if that sun makes it impossible for competitors to translate their originally designed performance on stage, then this is not something irrelevant and they really don't care for green room or waterfalls if their performance would appear worse live on TV?
Also, these competitors and national broadcasters have hired other artists, graphic designers, animators and choreographers, and they drafted their staging ideas around the original concept of the stage. If they have to change their original ideas and draft new designs and plans, that also bears some additional costs. Who will reimburse those costs to the competitors.

Sorry, but this is unprofessional. Good intentions, effort by the host, I appreciate all of these things, but this was a foreseeable technical issue from the get-go and a back-up plan was obligatory.

By saying "It is as it is and it won't be fixed" the organisers show disrespect to others' hard work while expecting their work to be appreciated and not criticised, otherwise they'll call it ethnic prejudice, anti-Italian sentiment, whatever. Bollocks.

I don't think organizers will cover their failures: "it is what it is and won't be fixed" is what fandom is saying, not the organizers. Is what you say they said. And this is what some Italians can perceive like "ethnic prejudice, anti-Italian sentiment, whatever", as you said.

Honestly Polly, you know what: In the last two days I started to desire we withdraw from the competition again next year. Why? Let's start with something we all know. Last year The Netherlands hosted the show and AVROTROS had problems aswell in the rehearsals: Senhit almost injured herself for a failure on the staging, but we didn't have that much drama and surely we didn't blame the dutch broadcaster (which would have been something really stupid to do in first place, because we didn't see how things have gone, we just hear of this problem from Sammarinese delegation and secondarily because it was fixed before the show aired), dutch people or everything is dutch. This things just happen (should not, but there is always a risk). Last year there were also severe audio problems, with three acts repeating their performances on jury show because they didn't hear anything from their earpieces. But we didn't blame anyone, because those things just happen. In 2019? Should I mention you the Belarusian jury problem who deprived some countries of the Final? Or the fact that Tamara Todevska won the jury vote and couldn't even be happy because they messed up the votes? But it happens sometimes, to screw up. It's not Israel broadcaster's fault. 2018? As someone here said, they have the same issue we have this year. Fortunately that was not the main part of the staging, so nobody really cared in the end (and in the end, I think nobody will care this year outside the fandom because the 99% of Eurovision viewers don't even know how the staging would be, imagine if they know how it's supposed to work).

But, if you see the comments this year, they are totally different and they are focusing on our broadcaster and, expecially, and I remark, EXPECIALLY our country, even when RAI and Italy don't mean anything by any means (for example, there were people blaming RAI for the statement of EBU about Ronela's staging when it's the EBU which decides what should be aired and what shouldn't, saying Italy should never host anything... You have heard it right, you find all the comments on YouTube under certain users pages). This is the main problem. All started with that staging thing you will say? Yeah, but not really, because it actually started before... The stage issue was the main dish, like we Italians are laughing of that issue, like we didn't care. See some Spanish YouTube Channels saying "Italy being Italy", see some other British comments online saying "On which head did the stage fell off today?". These are the comments, all over. Do you think these comments would ever be written if someone else hosted Eurovision? Sorry, but I don't think so. You know why I don't think so? Remember last year what happened on the final? How many winners have been treated that way? And how many host countries have that prejudice around them about them hosting based on a 1991 meme (thirty-fucking-one years ago)? How many allocation draw (yes, I said allocation draw) hosts were hugely criticized for their English pronounciation? Saying the same mantra of "Italians being Italian", "Italians should learn some English" (and some comments weren't even written in good English. I'm not that perfect in English too, but at least I admit that). Of course they didn't said all these things like this, but in a different way, let's say, a lot more disrespectful. And this is not being nationalistic, it is reality because it didn't happen in the same manner in the past (for example, the Portuguese girls in 2018 didn't have a perfect English but I was totally fine with their pronounciation or I didn't even care that much).

You can say what you want, that the things I said are not right. But I actually saw them. I, as an Italian, directly involved in this shitstorm, see all these things and those things bother me a lot. And it is really frustrating. These comments are frustrating for us, the Italian fans of the contest, who are waiting to host from forever (because I was 2, literally 2 years old when Toto said his "Allora" to the World making the biggest Eurovision meme of all time, the only thing why 1991 is remembered), are frustrating for the organization, which spilled a lot of money to bring you the best Eurovision possible (and that's just because of that meme. Because they wanted redemption from that 1991 contest, always remembered as the worst, when it actually gave us of the biggest voting dramas of all time. And still, nobody cares, because of "Allora": the competition being tertiary behind staging and an Italian interlocution, when competition should be the main thing after being together to have a great time) just to see that problem emerge just before first rehearsals and screw it all, with the fans not giving the whole contest even the benefit of the doubt to see what the final product will eventually be, and are frustrating for the artists themselves, because as long as people focuses on production issues their work doesn't really matter: on some pages I saw more comments about everything else than comments about the singers and the songs: this is what really is not fair, because THEY should be the "best attraction" of the evening, not something else, not even a stupid sun. Sometimes I don't get if some "fans" are really interested in music to begin with or if they watch the show and comment on it out of boredom.

In conclusion, I was the first which complained about the lack of news regarding this year's Eurovision and I remember having a pretty harsh discussion with my compatriot Sucof on this Forum regarding the lack of information given by RAI to Eurovision Fans (I think it was January or early February). So I was the last person defending RAI and my country at all costs, I'm not that patriotic and I really hate a lot of things about my country. But enough is enough! What I'm reading from a lot of sources is a huge pile of toxic bullshit and not being nationalistic doesn't mean I want my country being treated like a laughing stock: I think I'm now able to comprehend why Italy didn't want to host in the '90s and even retired from the competition, but maybe I'm wrong. Hope it doesn't happen again, but sorry, let me say it loud and clear: the fandom is toxic as hell and, as it stays, I don't want my country to host Eurovision ever again. Sorry. Vote for someone else, but don't you dare to vote for us. And I'm saying this not because of that damn sun, but because I've read too much s**t in the past few days, few months and few years and I'm getting really tired of it. If my dream was to be able to see my own country hosting Eurovision, now it will be granted. But I don't want it no more, sorry. Now I wish I never had that desire: if I could turn back time, I would give Barbara the win and place Måneskin last place even if they didn't deserved it. In the end, as Jan said last year, we are only "The Land of Pizza and Sambuca": so we can move on and leave song contests to others.

And I'm sorry if I annoyed you, but those are actually my feelings about the whole thing. You people are nice: this is literally the only platform where I see constructive criticism and a real debate. So happy I have joined.
 
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ItsJaden

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It's been mentioned numerous times already. One side of the sun had lights, the other side had an LED screen. The side that is facing forward is the lights side, so the LED screen is probably perfectly functional but it's just facing the back of the stage and is therefore completely useless unless they can find a way to turn it. But then, the people that didn't want LEDs in their staging and wanted to use the lights might get irritated.

Tbh I don't know how much of a difference it's going to make - the fandom will go insane over the next week, but the vast majority of other viewers on the nights won't notice or care that much I'm sure.

Might have been mentioned numerous times, but it's the first time i actually get how the sun works. Makes perfect sense now.

I do think people will notice once they see 40 performances with the same style lighting and no backdrops. The lights are amazing and we can see from the Rotterdam show how much effect great lighting has, but imagine Rotterdam without any backdrop screens. It sets the tone, changes the stage and breaths life in many songs and performances. Not saying every artist or song needs it, but for the viewer it keeps things interesting.
 

marty

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I don't think organizers will cover their failures: "it is what it is and won't be fixed" is what fandom is saying, not the organizers. Is what you say they said. And this is what some Italians can perceive like "ethnic prejudice, anti-Italian sentiment, whatever", as you said.

Honestly Polly, you know what: In the last two days I started to desire we withdraw from the competition again next year. Why? Let's start with something we all know. Last year The Netherlands hosted the show and AVROTROS had problems aswell in the rehearsals: Senhit almost injured herself for a failure on the staging, but we didn't have that much drama and surely we didn't blame the dutch broadcaster (which would have been something really stupid to do in first place, because we didn't see how things have gone, we just hear of this problem from Sammarinese delegation and secondarily because it was fixed before the show aired), dutch people or everything is dutch. This things just happen (should not, but there is always a risk). Last year there were also severe audio problems, with three acts repeating their performances on jury show because they didn't hear anything from their earpieces. But we didn't blame anyone, because those things just happen. In 2019? Should I mention you the Belarusian jury problem who deprived some countries of the Final? Or the fact that Tamara Todevska won the jury vote and couldn't even be happy because they messed up the votes? But it happens sometimes, to screw up. It's not Israel broadcaster's fault. 2018? As someone here said, they have the same issue we have this year. Fortunately that was not the main part of the staging, so nobody really cared in the end (and in the end, I think nobody will care this year outside the fandom because the 99% of Eurovision viewers don't even know how the staging would be, imagine if they know how it's supposed to work).

But, if you see the comments this year, they are totally different and they are focusing on our broadcaster and, expecially, and I remark, EXPECIALLY our country, even when RAI and Italy don't mean anything by any means (for example, there were people blaming RAI for the statement of EBU about Ronela's staging when it's the EBU which decides what should be aired and what shouldn't, saying Italy should never host anything... You have heard it right, you find all the comments on YouTube under certain users pages). This is the main problem. All started with that staging thing you will say? Yeah, but not really, because it actually started before... The stage issue was the main dish, like we Italians are laughing of that issue, like we didn't care. See some Spanish YouTube Channels saying "Italy being Italy", see some other British comments online saying "On which head did the stage fell off today?". These are the comments, all over. Do you think these comments would ever be written if someone else hosted Eurovision? Sorry, but I don't think so. You know why I don't think so? Remember last year what happened on the final? How many winners have been treated that way? And how many host countries have that prejudice around them about them hosting based on a 1991 meme (thirty-fucking-one years ago)? How many allocation draw (yes, I said allocation draw) hosts were hugely criticized for their English pronounciation? Saying the same mantra of "Italians being Italian", "Italians should learn some English" (and some comments weren't even written in good English. I'm not that perfect in English too, but at least I admit that). Of course they didn't said all these things like this, but in a different way, let's say, a lot more disrespectful. And this is not being nationalistic, it is reality because it didn't happen in the same manner in the past (for example, the Portuguese girls in 2018 didn't have a perfect English but I was totally fine with their pronounciation or I didn't even care that much).

You can say what you want, that the things I said are not right. But I actually saw them. I, as an Italian, directly involved in this shitstorm, see all these things and those things bother me a lot. And it is really frustrating. These comments are frustrating for us, the Italian fans of the contest, who are waiting to host from forever (because I was 2, literally 2 years old when Toto said his "Allora" to the World making the biggest Eurovision meme of all time, the only thing why 1991 is remembered), are frustrating for the organization, which spilled a lot of money to bring you the best Eurovision possible (and that's just because of that meme. Because they wanted redemption from that 1991 contest, always remembered as the worst, when it actually gave us of the biggest voting dramas of all time. And still, nobody cares, because of "Allora": the competition being tertiary behind staging and an Italian interlocution, when competition should be the main thing after being together to have a great time) just to see that problem emerge just before first rehearsals and screw it all, with the fans not giving the whole contest even the benefit of the doubt to see what the final product will eventually be, and are frustrating for the artists themselves, because as long as people focuses on production issues their work doesn't really matter: on some pages I saw more comments about everything else than comments about the singers and the songs: this is what really is not fair, because THEY should be the "best attraction" of the evening, not something else, not even a stupid sun. Sometimes I don't get if some "fans" are really interested in music to begin with or if they watch the show and comment on it out of boredom.

In conclusion, I was the first which complained about the lack of news regarding this year's Eurovision and I remember having a pretty harsh discussion with my compatriot Sucof on this Forum regarding the lack of information given by RAI to Eurovision Fans (I think it was January or early February). So I was the last person defending RAI and my country at all costs, I'm not that patriotic and I really hate a lot of things about my country. But enough is enough! What I'm reading from a lot of sources is a huge pile of toxic bullshit and not being nationalistic doesn't mean I want my country being treated like a laughing stock: I think I'm now able to comprehend why Italy didn't want to host in the '90s and even retired from the competition, but maybe I'm wrong. Hope it doesn't happen again, but sorry, let me say it loud and clear: the fandom is toxic as hell and, as it stays, I don't want my country to host Eurovision ever again. Sorry. Vote for someone else, but don't you dare to vote for us. And I'm saying this not because of that damn sun, but because I've read too much s**t in the past few days, few months and few years and I'm getting really tired of it. If my dream was to be able to see my own country hosting Eurovision, now it will be granted. But I don't want it no more, sorry. Now I wish I never had that desire: if I could turn back time, I would give Barbara the win and place Måneskin last place even if they didn't deserved it. In the end, as Jan said last year, we are only "The Land of Pizza and Sambuca": so we can move on and leave song contests to others.

And I'm sorry if I annoyed you, but those are actually my feelings about the whole thing. You people are nice: this is literally the only platform where I see constructive criticism and a real debate. So happy to have joined.
I hope you have calmed down a bit in the meantime. because italy is one of the most beloved countries in the world for sure. the esc stage is not the center of the world. just a few people are a little deranged.
 

ItsJaden

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This. I‘ve read several rude comments towards her, this is unbearable. Something not her fault could ruin her career forever.
People are overreacting much. There is ALWAYS a possibility that something can go wrong during the pre-Eurovision days. Failure is human. And I‘m sorry to say but I don’t have any pity with delegations that don’t have a plan B and rely on everything to turn out perfectly.

I'm sure we will see a great show in Turin and I‘m looking very much forward to it and anyone saying negative things about Italy or even certain people who don’t have anything to do with that failure - just keep your self-righteous comments to yourself and let us enjoy Eurovision.

Typical 2022 reaction. Blame the artists. How dare they not bring a plan B to the best organized multimillion dollar show. Sure it's possible things don't work, but this something is not just a lightbulb. It's the mail element of the investment. It's the center point of the stage. Basically it's the stage.
And the last decade or so, you don't expect something to go so wrong. Yes it's human, but it's also pretty much unheard of. There's more chance little things like in-ears, or a microphone not working than the main elements of such a stage.

Should artists bring a plan B for everything? How would that work anyway?
Anyway...
 

ItsJaden

Active member
Joined
March 15, 2022
Posts
30
I don't think organizers will cover their failures: "it is what it is and won't be fixed" is what fandom is saying, not the organizers. Is what you say they said. And this is what some Italians can perceive like "ethnic prejudice, anti-Italian sentiment, whatever", as you said.

Honestly Polly, you know what: In the last two days I started to desire we withdraw from the competition again next year. Why? Let's start with something we all know. Last year The Netherlands hosted the show and AVROTROS had problems aswell in the rehearsals: Senhit almost injured herself for a failure on the staging, but we didn't have that much drama and surely we didn't blame the dutch broadcaster (which would have been something really stupid to do in first place, because we didn't see how things have gone, we just hear of this problem from Sammarinese delegation and secondarily because it was fixed before the show aired), dutch people or everything is dutch. This things just happen (should not, but there is always a risk). Last year there were also severe audio problems, with three acts repeating their performances on jury show because they didn't hear anything from their earpieces. But we didn't blame anyone, because those things just happen. In 2019? Should I mention you the Belarusian jury problem who deprived some countries of the Final? Or the fact that Tamara Todevska won the jury vote and couldn't even be happy because they messed up the votes? But it happens sometimes, to screw up. It's not Israel broadcaster's fault. 2018? As someone here said, they have the same issue we have this year. Fortunately that was not the main part of the staging, so nobody really cared in the end (and in the end, I think nobody will care this year outside the fandom because the 99% of Eurovision viewers don't even know how the staging would be, imagine if they know how it's supposed to work).

But, if you see the comments this year, they are totally different and they are focusing on our broadcaster and, expecially, and I remark, EXPECIALLY our country, even when RAI and Italy don't mean anything by any means (for example, there were people blaming RAI for the statement of EBU about Ronela's staging when it's the EBU which decides what should be aired and what shouldn't, saying Italy should never host anything... You have heard it right, you find all the comments on YouTube under certain users pages). This is the main problem. All started with that staging thing you will say? Yeah, but not really, because it actually started before... The stage issue was the main dish, like we Italians are laughing of that issue, like we didn't care. See some Spanish YouTube Channels saying "Italy being Italy", see some other British comments online saying "On which head did the stage fell off today?". These are the comments, all over. Do you think these comments would ever be written if someone else hosted Eurovision? Sorry, but I don't think so. You know why I don't think so? Remember last year what happened on the final? How many winners have been treated that way? And how many host countries have that prejudice around them about them hosting based on a 1991 meme (thirty-fucking-one years ago)? How many allocation draw (yes, I said allocation draw) hosts were hugely criticized for their English pronounciation? Saying the same mantra of "Italians being Italian", "Italians should learn some English" (and some comments weren't even written in good English. I'm not that perfect in English too, but at least I admit that). Of course they didn't said all these things like this, but in a different way, let's say, a lot more disrespectful. And this is not being nationalistic, it is reality because it didn't happen in the same manner in the past (for example, the Portuguese girls in 2018 didn't have a perfect English but I was totally fine with their pronounciation or I didn't even care that much).

You can say what you want, that the things I said are not right. But I actually saw them. I, as an Italian, directly involved in this shitstorm, see all these things and those things bother me a lot. And it is really frustrating. These comments are frustrating for us, the Italian fans of the contest, who are waiting to host from forever (because I was 2, literally 2 years old when Toto said his "Allora" to the World making the biggest Eurovision meme of all time, the only thing why 1991 is remembered), are frustrating for the organization, which spilled a lot of money to bring you the best Eurovision possible (and that's just because of that meme. Because they wanted redemption from that 1991 contest, always remembered as the worst, when it actually gave us of the biggest voting dramas of all time. And still, nobody cares, because of "Allora": the competition being tertiary behind staging and an Italian interlocution, when competition should be the main thing after being together to have a great time) just to see that problem emerge just before first rehearsals and screw it all, with the fans not giving the whole contest even the benefit of the doubt to see what the final product will eventually be, and are frustrating for the artists themselves, because as long as people focuses on production issues their work doesn't really matter: on some pages I saw more comments about everything else than comments about the singers and the songs: this is what really is not fair, because THEY should be the "best attraction" of the evening, not something else, not even a stupid sun. Sometimes I don't get if some "fans" are really interested in music to begin with or if they watch the show and comment on it out of boredom.

In conclusion, I was the first which complained about the lack of news regarding this year's Eurovision and I remember having a pretty harsh discussion with my compatriot Sucof on this Forum regarding the lack of information given by RAI to Eurovision Fans (I think it was January or early February). So I was the last person defending RAI and my country at all costs, I'm not that patriotic and I really hate a lot of things about my country. But enough is enough! What I'm reading from a lot of sources is a huge pile of toxic bullshit and not being nationalistic doesn't mean I want my country being treated like a laughing stock: I think I'm now able to comprehend why Italy didn't want to host in the '90s and even retired from the competition, but maybe I'm wrong. Hope it doesn't happen again, but sorry, let me say it loud and clear: the fandom is toxic as hell and, as it stays, I don't want my country to host Eurovision ever again. Sorry. Vote for someone else, but don't you dare to vote for us. And I'm saying this not because of that damn sun, but because I've read too much s**t in the past few days, few months and few years and I'm getting really tired of it. If my dream was to be able to see my own country hosting Eurovision, now it will be granted. But I don't want it no more, sorry. Now I wish I never had that desire: if I could turn back time, I would give Barbara the win and place Måneskin last place even if they didn't deserved it. In the end, as Jan said last year, we are only "The Land of Pizza and Sambuca": so we can move on and leave song contests to others.

And I'm sorry if I annoyed you, but those are actually my feelings about the whole thing. You people are nice: this is literally the only platform where I see constructive criticism and a real debate. So happy to have joined.

People aren't blaming Italy. (not the people that matter anyway). But i can imagine the snowflakes and trolls having a good go at Italy and the organization. Like everything that comes out of tyheir little fingers. Ignore. If you can't ignore them, they will get to you

Italy is my favorite country in the world. Lived there a few years as well. People love Italy. Don't worry
 
Joined
April 10, 2021
Posts
3,271
I don't think organizers will cover their failures: "it is what it is and won't be fixed" is what fandom is saying, not the organizers. Is what you say they said. And this is what some Italians can perceive like "ethnic prejudice, anti-Italian sentiment, whatever", as you said.

Honestly Polly, you know what: In the last two days I started to desire we withdraw from the competition again next year. Why? Let's start with something we all know. Last year The Netherlands hosted the show and AVROTROS had problems aswell in the rehearsals: Senhit almost injured herself for a failure on the staging, but we didn't have that much drama and surely we didn't blame the dutch broadcaster (which would have been something really stupid to do in first place, because we didn't see how things have gone, we just hear of this problem from Sammarinese delegation and secondarily because it was fixed before the show aired), dutch people or everything is dutch. This things just happen (should not, but there is always a risk). Last year there were also severe audio problems, with three acts repeating their performances on jury show because they didn't hear anything from their earpieces. But we didn't blame anyone, because those things just happen. In 2019? Should I mention you the Belarusian jury problem who deprived some countries of the Final? Or the fact that Tamara Todevska won the jury vote and couldn't even be happy because they messed up the votes? But it happens sometimes, to screw up. It's not Israel broadcaster's fault. 2018? As someone here said, they have the same issue we have this year. Fortunately that was not the main part of the staging, so nobody really cared in the end (and in the end, I think nobody will care this year outside the fandom because the 99% of Eurovision viewers don't even know how the staging would be, imagine if they know how it's supposed to work).

But, if you see the comments this year, they are totally different and they are focusing on our broadcaster and, expecially, and I remark, EXPECIALLY our country, even when RAI and Italy don't mean anything by any means (for example, there were people blaming RAI for the statement of EBU about Ronela's staging when it's the EBU which decides what should be aired and what shouldn't, saying Italy should never host anything... You have heard it right, you find all the comments on YouTube under certain users pages). This is the main problem. All started with that staging thing you will say? Yeah, but not really, because it actually started before... The stage issue was the main dish, like we Italians are laughing of that issue, like we didn't care. See some Spanish YouTube Channels saying "Italy being Italy", see some other British comments online saying "On which head did the stage fell off today?". These are the comments, all over. Do you think these comments would ever be written if someone else hosted Eurovision? Sorry, but I don't think so. You know why I don't think so? Remember last year what happened on the final? How many winners have been treated that way? And how many host countries have that prejudice around them about them hosting based on a 1991 meme (thirty-fucking-one years ago)? How many allocation draw (yes, I said allocation draw) hosts were hugely criticized for their English pronounciation? Saying the same mantra of "Italians being Italian", "Italians should learn some English" (and some comments weren't even written in good English. I'm not that perfect in English too, but at least I admit that). Of course they didn't said all these things like this, but in a different way, let's say, a lot more disrespectful. And this is not being nationalistic, it is reality because it didn't happen in the same manner in the past (for example, the Portuguese girls in 2018 didn't have a perfect English but I was totally fine with their pronounciation or I didn't even care that much).

You can say what you want, that the things I said are not right. But I actually saw them. I, as an Italian, directly involved in this shitstorm, see all these things and those things bother me a lot. And it is really frustrating. These comments are frustrating for us, the Italian fans of the contest, who are waiting to host from forever (because I was 2, literally 2 years old when Toto said his "Allora" to the World making the biggest Eurovision meme of all time, the only thing why 1991 is remembered), are frustrating for the organization, which spilled a lot of money to bring you the best Eurovision possible (and that's just because of that meme. Because they wanted redemption from that 1991 contest, always remembered as the worst, when it actually gave us of the biggest voting dramas of all time. And still, nobody cares, because of "Allora": the competition being tertiary behind staging and an Italian interlocution, when competition should be the main thing after being together to have a great time) just to see that problem emerge just before first rehearsals and screw it all, with the fans not giving the whole contest even the benefit of the doubt to see what the final product will eventually be, and are frustrating for the artists themselves, because as long as people focuses on production issues their work doesn't really matter: on some pages I saw more comments about everything else than comments about the singers and the songs: this is what really is not fair, because THEY should be the "best attraction" of the evening, not something else, not even a stupid sun. Sometimes I don't get if some "fans" are really interested in music to begin with or if they watch the show and comment on it out of boredom.

In conclusion, I was the first which complained about the lack of news regarding this year's Eurovision and I remember having a pretty harsh discussion with my compatriot Sucof on this Forum regarding the lack of information given by RAI to Eurovision Fans (I think it was January or early February). So I was the last person defending RAI and my country at all costs, I'm not that patriotic and I really hate a lot of things about my country. But enough is enough! What I'm reading from a lot of sources is a huge pile of toxic bullshit and not being nationalistic doesn't mean I want my country being treated like a laughing stock: I think I'm now able to comprehend why Italy didn't want to host in the '90s and even retired from the competition, but maybe I'm wrong. Hope it doesn't happen again, but sorry, let me say it loud and clear: the fandom is toxic as hell and, as it stays, I don't want my country to host Eurovision ever again. Sorry. Vote for someone else, but don't you dare to vote for us. And I'm saying this not because of that damn sun, but because I've read too much s**t in the past few days, few months and few years and I'm getting really tired of it. If my dream was to be able to see my own country hosting Eurovision, now it will be granted. But I don't want it no more, sorry. Now I wish I never had that desire: if I could turn back time, I would give Barbara the win and place Måneskin last place even if they didn't deserved it. In the end, as Jan said last year, we are only "The Land of Pizza and Sambuca": so we can move on and leave song contests to others.

And I'm sorry if I annoyed you, but those are actually my feelings about the whole thing. You people are nice: this is literally the only platform where I see constructive criticism and a real debate. So happy to have joined.

I understand completely what you say about people on the social media saying nasty things about Italians, including insults based on ethnical key.

However, as much as I recall, Amsterdam was slammed as well last year for in-ear monitors not working (I remember it well because they allowed Destiny to repeat her jury performance when she had no problems whatsoever with monitors 🤣), and many other countries have been called out inapropriately as well.

E.g. Ukraine's organisation was called "a corrupted mess" by a user here, and Azerbaycan was refered to as "a country that should never win again because nobody wants to travel and stay in that backwards Eastern European country".

It's not nice to hear and read such comments for users from these countries as well.

That's why I'm not sensitive about complaints that you, Italians, have been victims of some prejudicial ethnic hate speech just because of the shortcomings in the organisation, when other countries had to put up with a far worse treatment, without being the fans' favourite to win every year, as Italy is (that's how toxic the fandom is, they put Italy first in televote almost every year 🤣). Reality check please!

Also, a very important part of stage is not working. It's a serious malfunction affecting performances and live broadcast that has not happened for a while. For now it seems we have a big black hole in the middle of the stage with a corona alike lightshow.

Just fix it, as this has nothing to do with few nasty idiots from social media.
 
Last edited:

nudiecrudi

Well-known member
Joined
April 13, 2012
Posts
1,375
Oh please, it’s the biggest music event in the world and people are expecting a level of quality and rightfully so. I’ve barely seen anyone be happy about this, just disappointment. It’s ok to criticize, doesn’t mean we don’t want Italy to shine. I must also say Italy has had a bit of a laissez faire attitude to the whole hosting role so it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth that the stage has a critical error. To whoever wants to argue with me: let’s not forget Italy turning down hosting JESC because they won yet lacked interest.
Critics are wellcomed, they help to go further and do better.
I'm not saying I'm happy with the situation and not disappointed.
I dont know if you have read all the things written around several socials or platforms, but do you think what was written were only critics? I don't think so.
Now about having this laissez faire attitude I do not agree at all. This non functioned majestic expensive staging shows that Rai was trying to offer something new and unseen until now. The project was choosen amongst other ones. Otherwise a simple Sanremo style staging, maybe using some pieces of old sanremese stagings as in 1991, would have been proper to what you call laissez faire attitude. A huge flat led wall and that's it.
Please mention another hosting country that have involved such international stars to present the show in the last 15-20 years.
You can not deny the affords done. The results aren't satisfying? We can agree, but we will have a complete idea about what will happen and how it will look after the first semifinal.
 
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