Contact us

Live EUROVISION SONG CONTEST 2022 FINAL DISCUSSION

Sean

Co Editor in Chief
Staff member
Joined
September 28, 2009
Posts
16,754
Location
Nottingham
Please use this thread to discuss rehearsals in general and also to follow along with all of the live shows in Turin.

Matt, Melanie and Roy from the ESC United team will be LIVE in Turin over the coming days, with yours truly joining them on the ground in the coming days.

Make sure to join Matt for the round up of Eurovision 2022 rehearsals from 10:00 CET, LIVE on Youtube. Links to all live streams are below;

DAY 1

DAY 2

DAY 3

DAY 4

DAY 5

DAY 6

DAY 7

For individual countries' reactions and interviews, please check out the specific country thread.

Make sure to also follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Twitch and our new TikTok account for all of the latest behind the scenes and reaction from Turin!

>>> Click HERE for the Eurovision 2022 rehearsal schedule <<<
 
Last edited:

AlekS

Veteran
Joined
October 1, 2009
Posts
22,877
Location
BOPkraine
Laura Pausini got COVID:

GGDW83I.jpg
 

ESC_12 points

Active member
Joined
May 16, 2022
Posts
29
Yes, they did !
What i was saying by "detailed of juries votes" is what you call "scoreboards" . And yes, they are absent ... because the juries vote have been replaced.


The czech jury vote had no problem. The detail of their vote is under the ranking of the top 10.

czech-vote.png



For romania and poland, theses details votes are missing, there is only the ranking of the top 10
And as i was saying, Romania and Poland got the same vote in semi-final :

polish-vote.png


Romanian-vote.png


.... Why are they identical ? Because their real vote have been removed. Poland and Romania are in the same "Pot"(and not "hat" like i wrote ealier, ups) , so the "algorithm" used to determine their fake jury vote include the same countries.

And it's the same with azerbaijan, georgia and san marino who got the same jury vote in semi-final as well, the reason is their vote have been replaced. (And montenegro is isolated)

And if you ask you "Why san marino fake jury vote is the same as Georgia and azerbaijan ? They are not in the same Pot." You are right, and the reason is explained in the post i quoted before : Because there is twice less countries voting in the semi-final, they put the pots together by two, so the Pot 3, including azerbaijan and georgia, and the pot 4, including San marino, are together. And their jury votes as based on the votes of the juries of the countries of theses pots that are in semi final two, so : Israel, Cyprus, and Malta.

As well, the Romanian and Polish fake jury vote was based on the countries of Pots 5 and 6, so : Estonia, belgium, czech republic, ireland
And The montenegrin fake jury vote was based on the countries of pots 1 and 2, so : North Macedonia, Serbia, Australia, Sweden, Finland

You are right their votes look identical. I wonder why they did not put their own juries. Say we already knew that Romania would give 12points to Moldova and Greece to Cyprus or Finland to Sweden and Azerbaijan to Georgia would give also each other high points. Yet, this is not something that they would do just this year but for years.
 

Bobjan FR

Active member
Joined
December 11, 2021
Posts
286
I discovered something tonight. You remember, 2014 was the first year we had the total details jury and public votes ?

In 2014, the georgia jury have been excluded as well after the semi-final, because 4 of the 5 juries had exactly the same top 8. I agree on this, they clearly made it together.

But i was looking for it right now and..... i discovered that the detailed jury + public votes of 2014 and 2015 are not on the eurovision website anymore :unsure::( They are available only from 2016, when the voting system have been changed... Why ? T_T
 

ESC_12 points

Active member
Joined
May 16, 2022
Posts
29
I discovered something tonight. You remember, 2014 was the first year we had the total details jury and public votes ?

In 2014, the georgia jury have been excluded as well after the semi-final, because 4 of the 5 juries had exactly the same top 8. I agree on this, they clearly made it together.

But i was looking for it right now and..... i discovered that the detailed jury + public votes of 2014 and 2015 are not on the eurovision website anymore :unsure::( They are available only from 2016, when the voting system have been changed... Why ? T_T
This alll sounds terrible. I lost my trust to the EBU when they blindly lied about the "bad connection". Why they do not specify what was the fault of Georgia in 2014 but instead they hide It and put the result from 2016. After all we vote and spendmoney for our selections, and we do not want the EBU interfere with our choices.

I think the best would be the anonymous juries something like the Voice, the points would be received to the country but from which country it would be not important. Each country would announce themselves how many points they receive, rather than each country would announce how many points they give.
For example, Georgia announces that they received 235 points from the jury and add later 125 from televoting, instead of 12 points go to Ukraine and then later add the Georgian points from televoting.

Or another solution, , for example, Georgian juri would be not all Georgians but say one Georgian, one German, one Greece, one Finnish. And Georgian jury would equally represent German, Greece, Finland as juries e.g exchange of juries from each country without knowing ahead which country's jury will represent during the Eurovision week. Also, ban two juris from the same country to represent one county for example, two Georgian juries to represent Germany. Make random selection of juries and countries. In this case, it will be hard say for "Moldovan" juri , who are represented by Moldovan, Georgian, Finnish, Italian, and German juries to give 12 points to Romania or Greece to Cyprus.
 
Last edited:

ESC94

Well-known member
Joined
September 7, 2019
Posts
3,110
Location
Bavaria, Germany
I discovered something tonight. You remember, 2014 was the first year we had the total details jury and public votes ?

In 2014, the georgia jury have been excluded as well after the semi-final, because 4 of the 5 juries had exactly the same top 8. I agree on this, they clearly made it together.

But i was looking for it right now and..... i discovered that the detailed jury + public votes of 2014 and 2015 are not on the eurovision website anymore :unsure::( They are available only from 2016, when the voting system have been changed... Why ? T_T

You can still see them on Wikipedia:


And then just click trough the countries.
 

midnightsun

Well-known member
Joined
February 26, 2016
Posts
2,865
Location
Germany
While I get WHY these measures had to be (rightfully) taken, it still raises many questions about the EBU. And I don’t think what they did was well done.

The substitute votes from the EBU, given to the cheating countries, resemble pretty much the jury vote of Malta, for example. So, did Malta and EBU coordinate their votes too? :LOL:

Also, why was the "algorithm" changed in comparison to 2019 where all the points were given to the last ten 10 countries, thus having much less influence than now, where a bunch of countries got lots and lots of extra points because all points from the removed countries went to the same countries!

Why didn’t the EBU raise any questions when all five German jurors put the same country as their #1 in the years 2013-2018? (Answer: because it was mostly Sweden :ROFLMAO:)

I do believe that certain countries are corrupt and try to rig votes all the time. But there is fraud in most other juries too. Let it be all juries voting for the same #1, let it be favourite countries don’t give points to the competing other favourites on purpose, the Azerbaijan - Armenia issue, block voting in many parts of Europe etc.

The jury system must be renewed.

Anyway, I hope we will get a contest next year without all the drama and trouble of this year.
 

Yoozek

Well-known member
Joined
March 17, 2013
Posts
1,881
Location
Poland
Oh for f*cks sake. Without all this bullshit, Ochman would be TOP3 in his SF, which would mean I F*CKING WON THAT MONEY ON THAT BET AFTER ALL.

mood-so-what.gif
 

Yoozek

Well-known member
Joined
March 17, 2013
Posts
1,881
Location
Poland
Not to mention... These pots. And the alghorithm using the history. So in any case, Sweden always gets 12 and San Marino always get 0 cause they sucked in the past? Lmao.
 

Synergise

Well-known member
Joined
May 4, 2011
Posts
1,576
Location
United Kingdom
Not to mention... These pots. And the alghorithm using the history. So in any case, Sweden always gets 12 and San Marino always get 0 cause they sucked in the past? Lmao.
To clarify, the algorithm's results aren't based on historical results directly. The algorithm just uses the jury rankings of countries that have voted similarly to each of the cheating countries in the past. It doesn't matter that Sweden did really well in the past or that San Marino did badly - just that Sweden did well with the juries this year, and San Marino did badly this year.

While I get WHY these measures had to be (rightfully) taken, it still raises many questions about the EBU. And I don’t think what they did was well done.

The substitute votes from the EBU, given to the cheating countries, resemble pretty much the jury vote of Malta, for example. So, did Malta and EBU coordinate their votes too? :LOL:

Also, why was the "algorithm" changed in comparison to 2019 where all the points were given to the last ten 10 countries, thus having much less influence than now, where a bunch of countries got lots and lots of extra points because all points from the removed countries went to the same countries!

Why didn’t the EBU raise any questions when all five German jurors put the same country as their #1 in the years 2013-2018? (Answer: because it was mostly Sweden :ROFLMAO:)

I do believe that certain countries are corrupt and try to rig votes all the time. But there is fraud in most other juries too. Let it be all juries voting for the same #1, let it be favourite countries don’t give points to the competing other favourites on purpose, the Azerbaijan - Armenia issue, block voting in many parts of Europe etc.

The jury system must be renewed.

Anyway, I hope we will get a contest next year without all the drama and trouble of this year.
Whilst I'm clarifying things, the system has not changed since 2019. The Belarussian vote in 2019 used the exact same procedure as the one used in 2022. A mistake was made on the night, and after the show, corrected, because the result presented on the night was inverted - 12 points went to Israel on the night, but using the algorithm, Israel actually came last with the calculated Belarussian jury vote. The 12 points instead should have gone to Malta, who had the best combined jury result of the other countries in Belarus' pot that year.
 

HayashiM

Veteran
Joined
January 26, 2019
Posts
3,431
Location
Prague, Czech Republic
I found this YouTube video regarding cheating in the Second Semi Final by ESC Tom to be very inciteful and well put together. If you have a spare half an hour I found it worth the listen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d5NZ3_GiV8
Yeah, this video says it all. Just go and watch it you people :)

I will repost/reemphasize two of Tom's points here:

1. The cheating itself was done very poorly, as if by kids from primary school, you couldn't make a more textbook obvious example. The fact that some broadcasters still argue that "but Belgium and Sweden and Australia also voted for one another" or "ah-hah, so this algorithm is how EBU is manipulating everything!" and don't see the flaw in this "reasoning" shows how stupid they actually are, and how little they understand how basic statistics work -> which is probably why they tried to cheat in this super obvious way in the first place.
(In my opinion, this is yet another argument hinting at at least some broadcasters having been actively involved, and not just individual juries).

2. There has been a very clear cheating taking place, yet all countries involved still deny that, not a single one has bothered with at least an apology - instead, they try to divert attention by taking it on the EBU.
 

ag89

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2015
Posts
1,524
I can somehow understand why Georgia, Azerbaijan or San Marino played this game. But Romania and Poland? They had songs for the final liked by fans, particularly Poland. It is really embarrassing.
 

12Pointsgoto.....

Active member
Joined
February 20, 2022
Posts
385
Embarrassing for the broadcaster but so disrespectful to the artists representing them
I think they might have made this agreement before songs were chosen. 5 out of 6 of these countries were struggling a lot and Azerbaijan always has to get involved with cheating. I doubt the more conservative Polish Jury would agree to voting for a guy practically wearing only underwear and seducing his male guitarist, while also riding a red bull.
 
Top Bottom