A fair voting system?

[rasmuslights]

That's why I don't have a problem with only Kaarija not winning.


If you wanted to use it at as a argument, you should include, when you started to follow Eurovision. If you did around 2016-2018, your point is valid, because you could really come because of that. I know many people, who are following Eurovision since 2000s and are bitching about "contest's reputation", "supporting artsy music". Like it's so much important, what society think about ESC or what contest should be like. For me, 2022 was awful in terms of diversity and entertainment, but I will always watch Eurovision because of competition, rivalry between countries, tension, drama. Honestly, I didn't want anyone to win last year, but I watched the show anyway. I have put money on Loreen, but I was still hoping for Kaarija to win. Some things will always remain.

Yeah, I started watching it in 2015.

For it isn't important what society thinks about it since I'm very open with my love for eurovision!
I don't watch eurovision for entertainment in the sense of "fun" since I usually hate entries that bring "fun" to eurovision.

 

[dogmeat]

The problem with 100% televote is song quality (or even lack thereof) will be thrown by the wayside in favor of who has the flashiest stage show. Why do you think the juries came back in 2009 in the first place? It was because of what I just mentioned, combined with rampant diaspora voting. The jury vote is needed as much as the televote is, it keeps each other in check. Eurovision is for ALL types of songs, not just the pop bangers and the "yass queen slay" types with over-the-top dance breaks

The juries came back as a racist kneejerk reaction to Eastern European countries winning in the 00s. And they're doing their best to stunt creativity in the contest. What do acts like Konstrakta, Zdob si Zdub, and Kaarija have in common? They're daring, outside the box, and unique - everything ESC juries dislike. If you really believe Eurovision is "for ALL types of songs, not just the pop bangers", you should pray for juries to be removed. They're mostly people involved in pop music and give top points to the most safe radio-friendly pop songs.

 

[Ewigkeit]

 

[Ana Raquel]

It is important to reflect and question what (western) society sees as serious, quality music and why a song would be considered bad/a joke

 

[Leydan]

It is important to reflect and question what (western) society sees as serious, quality music and why a song would be considered bad/a joke

Great point. From a British perspective - that still is alive and kicking today. In terms of Eurovision anything Non-English and local sounding is often labelled as a joke song and not serious music. Which ranges anything from Cha Cha Cha to Shum and all inbetween and beyond. It's an attitude made because of how internalised and 'English' our music industry and what charts here is, so anything really localised to other (Eastern European) countries, typically carrying a lot of ethno elements comes across as cheap typical eurovision music - mainly because it's the only place they hear it. Then the audience votes accordingly. Ofc some can be labelled as not serious (which imo isn't necessarily a bad thing) but usually the music is quite serious, however our audiences don't always quite interpret it that way.

 

[StephenMuckle]

https://eurovoix.com/2023/06/14/ebu...wlBOm6jMbQzlT2SocB0bhyWZ-8qS1jzperetPywmmbcjE. I'm just going to leave this right here

 

[HarryUK]

I sincerely hope that they do not remove the juries, but reform them - an age rule would be a good start. At least half of jurors if not the majority should be under 35 for example - for too long, ballads have ruled the roost with juries.

 

[rasmuslights]

I really don't think they will remove them. Afterall it's exciting to watch the reveal of the televote scores at the end.

 

[HarryUK]

I really don't think they will remove them. Afterall it's exciting to watch the reveal of the televote scores at the end.

Tbf I did find the screaming boo's at Mae Muller's televote score very entertaining

 

[Mainshow]

The best experience was and getting all from the public in 2021

I don't mind the juries but I just wish they would stop favouring standard Westernised pop music in English and focus on originality and ethno music as well.

Will an age rule prevent juries from placing songs such as "Shum" outside the Top 9 whilst voting for the most generic ballads like 2019? - I don't think so... I just hope that the EBU will just ask the juries to vote for their individual Top 10's again (so that they won't place the most interesting songs in their bottom 10 because they can't understand what Eurovision is truly about and prevent political voting like this year).

 

[aeon]

If they keep juries they have to justify each of the 4 criteria in writing how they voted, open for public to see afterwards.
Jurors have to affirm that they have not communicated with other jurors or intermediates to discuss entries.
To become a juror they have understand and respect ESC and assure to be totally impartial and judge songs and performance for its merits as required.

If jurors are from diverse background and follow the rules there will be no results where all 5 agree almost identical on first placings like this year.
However the public who spends money to vote might be just as furious as this year if the overwhelming favourite did get low jury votes. Why should a few music industry people be able to decide placings, it is just wrong. During broadcast educate and appeal to voting public to be fair and to judge entries on its merits would be much better options.

 

[StephenMuckle]

The fact that they are taking about potentially scrapping juries makes it look like the EBU are caving into the demands of toxic fans. Like a Eurovision equivalent of Appeasement.

Capcom caved into the toxic fighting game fandom several years ago and he result we got was the disastrous state of Street Fighter V when it launched. Caving into toxic fandom never ends well no matter what the situation is.

 

[Ezio]

Eurovision was worst off without juries. If jurors voted for art instead of mainstream radio pop and bland ballads, there is nothing wrong about them.

besides that, early runners need a fair shot at televotes. Recap in reverse. Max. One vote per country, vote if you love it, don’t if you don’t, so voting lines can open from the get go and also cut the show shorter than 4 hours.

when juries killed off Portugal in 2019, Spain 2023 should have already known they are dead

 

[Romeo]

50/50 is literally the only fair way. The juries need to be vetted better and need to vote a few times and use the average throughout the dress rehearsals / jury final. Only then will we have a realistic result. The votes can be analysed and if a country votes for Jemini 12 points every time.. We will know its not a jury member who is unbias

 

[aeon]

100% Televote in a contest where running order is decided by draw is the only fair competition.
Broadcasters to educate that ESC is not limited by European borders and to appeal to vote for songs, not love for a particular country or other reasons. Cost for televote adjusted to price index of country.

A miltinational large jury of music professionals can exclude "joke" entries or performers that cannot sing live or without auto-tune.
This is to happen before the contest starts.

Televote needs to be limited to 5 per person but each is a multivote for top 3 or top 5. This is to reduce a 2 horse race that suck up most votes like this year.

No backing vocals or auto-tune/automatic pitch correction.

NEW: Dance breaks more than 7 seconds not allowed, it's a song contest not a dance contest.

 

[aeon]

What happened this year with Loreen bias of jury and media which never should happen again we need to

exclude previous winners of ESC as participants

non winners wait 5 years before entering again

All entries deserve a more level starting position

 

[soundofsilence]

The only way I'll accept 50/50 is if the system outright changed
This system has been used for six years before I was born
The way forward is 20-1
And let the jury be 15 members
3-5 should be pop experts and 0-2 should be classical experts