Contact us

A fair voting system?

heke1988

Well-known member
Joined
March 4, 2018
Posts
3,726
Location
Finland
I still think we need the jury. Portugal and Spain in the bottom 3 is a crime when acts like Poland, Croatia and Moldova finishing in the top 10.

But I don't hate this point distribution since it does prevent countries with diaspora from being overrated.
What was wrong with Moldova?
 

StephenMuckle

Active member
Joined
October 8, 2020
Posts
109
Location
Belfast
I don't want to see juries eliminated at all. Be careful what you wish for. Anyone that remembers how bad the 2000s were knows this.

I think if the public vote is to be given more power, then it should be an online vote, where more points might be available but points are given based on share of the vote and you pick your 3-5 favourites. It's very clear that at times the points given in televoting are often disproportionate to how well they truly did with the public. And besides the televote has made some laughable decisions in the past and some televote patterns have been downright dodgy to say the least, particularly with songs tied to Philip Kirkorov (like Moldova in 2021).

I think for juries there should be people that represent the fan community, like from OGAE or INFE. Or have at least one jury member on the panel that specialises in different fields such as a staging director, vocal coach, songwriter, producer etc and they mark on that specific thing
 

lasse braun

Well-known member
Joined
March 20, 2021
Posts
5,706
without jurys we will get less musicquality.
and further the tradition still should count something.
the mix makes it interesting.
xqueenbitch
 

aeon

Member
Joined
May 29, 2023
Posts
78
Location
Tasmania
In Thailand the army dictatorship appoints 250 parliamentarians, that's 25%, so they can avoid the outcome the people want. The EBU appoints 185 jurors that have 50% of voting power to avoid the outcome the people want.

If juries are needed to prevent 'joke' entries, let juries decide who is excluded so a country can enter someone else.
However 100% televote.
Diaspora and block vote will always happen but that can be lessened if you limit televote to :
3 entries per phone;
each entry rank songs first to fifth, 5,4,3,2,1 points;
Make television presenters appeal to voters to be fair and judge songs not ethnic origin, politics or other reasons.

Running order should be a draw to be fair. Forbid props that cannot be installed timely.
Backing vocals to exclude any lead singers vocals to prevent lip-syncing.
Big 5 have to qualify like other entries (semis will get higher viewership to compensate for final loss if nq) and
A country that does not qualify for final gets 10% reduction of participation fee the next year.
Cost of televote related to price level of country. Poor countries, low price. Rest of World 50 cents a multivote for top 5.
Lower costs of event, no need to be so huge and expensive. A poorer country should be able to hold it if they win.

EBU to make a decision if Australia will be allowed to enter. They should have done that already.
If Australia is allowed, explain to televoters it's a legit entry but if it wins second placed gets first pick of hosting next year.
 

aeon

Member
Joined
May 29, 2023
Posts
78
Location
Tasmania
We need more representative jurors. Not a guy like this dude from Austria nobody knows who says all the songs are meh. No one who originates from one country and lives and works in another country that is participating.

Jurors who love Eurovision, who represent the age of the performers, not being 20 years older. Who represent the genres better, not only pop and classic, when ESC brings also ethno, rap and rock. Who don't represent any special interest, albeit through record label affiliation or through collaboration, ans no country y bias.
I read that about the Austrian juror who hates everything about ESC, in particular the entries. I was shocked and furious, how could ORF choose someone like that and why did this scumbag accept it just to spit on us all. What is going on, has that been investigated and did heads roll?
I grew up in Austria and still feel some connection. That really upset me and Austrian fans should do something that this guy never comes near anything to do with eurovision.

I support 100% televote with modifications of numbers as outlined in other posting.
 

aeon

Member
Joined
May 29, 2023
Posts
78
Location
Tasmania
It was clear to many ESC fans that Sweden was over promoted to the extent that it overshadowed all entries. The song was not particular original and neither were the LED sandwich screens. Because of that hype bordering on contest rigging many televoters choose only to vote for Käärijä in the final instead of giving some votes to other entries as well.

Australia came first in semifinal, Austria a close second. They hardly got any televotes in final, neither did Germany whose style would appeal to many Käärijä music fans. It was about stopping the juries to declare Sweden the winner that these and many others missed out on votes.

Solution?
  • Limit televotes to 3 or 5 per phone but
  • Make every vote ranking 1 to 5 with 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 points
  • Abolish or minimise juries. If not abolished make them justify each placing according to given criteria and make ranking without communication to other jurors.
 

ekzuu

Well-known member
Joined
March 1, 2021
Posts
792
Just ditch the juries, it's people's contest and people should decide
Even in other competitions its public who decides
It's the most fair and competition has moved on from fun acts and cmon Baila el chiki chiki is Eurovision classic, we can handle couple of these acts every year

But most of all stop changin the system every fcking year....
Like from 1975-2013 we had practically the same system and I want it back but only with televotes 100%
Making the voting system more and more difficult, changing it every year, making questionable changes like "Rest of the world vote" is just sad
I just want both semis and final 100% televote and 12, 10, 8–1
And I don't always agree with televotes, as I dont always agree with juries but thats life

Both 2015 Il Volo and especially 2019 KEiiNO xcry would have been an amazing winners
Käärija I didnt like but I also didnt like some other televote winners like 2014, 2016 and 2017
Although when russia would return with its twisted propaganda brainwashing, juries will need to come back

But if they want to try something new it would be good to try 100% televote in finals also
 

AndroZeus

Well-known member
Joined
March 28, 2023
Posts
626
Without Russia, Belarus, Turkey and many Balkan countries, juries really seem more pointless.
... Somewhere, the Nordic countries are nervously shifting in their seats...
 

esc87fan

Well-known member
Joined
April 21, 2013
Posts
19,521
Location
Canada
The problem with 100% televote is song quality (or even lack thereof) will be thrown by the wayside in favor of who has the flashiest stage show. Why do you think the juries came back in 2009 in the first place? It was because of what I just mentioned, combined with rampant diaspora voting. The jury vote is needed as much as the televote is, it keeps each other in check. Eurovision is for ALL types of songs, not just the pop bangers and the "yass queen slay" types with over-the-top dance breaks
 

Verjamem

Well-known member
Joined
March 11, 2013
Posts
3,968
No hard feelings (well, maybe yes), but in 2000s we didn't have Sweden high almost every year, no matter what they have sent. Would they do it now with entries like something, they were sending then? Jury voting is more like placebo to "Western" countries.
 

rasmuslights

Veteran
Joined
November 15, 2020
Posts
2,465
No hard feelings (well, maybe yes), but in 2000s we didn't have Sweden high almost every year, no matter what they have sent. Would they do it now with entries like something, they were sending then? Jury voting is more like placebo to "Western" countries.

As if the televote isn't voting for the same countries year after year (norway, moldova, albania, poland, lithuania) even though it's not usually deserved.
 

cegs5

Well-known member
Joined
March 6, 2012
Posts
6,360
I would start with a trial of 70% televote 30% jury and see the impact this has in a middle term.
The 50-50 was a good idea to balance the political/neighbouring voting in the 2000s, but it has been corrupted and nowadays seems to be dated and unnecessary.
Televoting results show that Western countries can do well without a jury, and countries with big diaspora don't have guaranteed good placing.

I would also return to the draw for the running order. The current allocation makes the results more predicatble, and don't find any logic to draw the halves. They come out witn the BS of balancing the show, I don't think there is an impact. SF2 was one of the most boring shows ever, no matter how you allocate the songs, and we have a few editions with enormous difference of entertainment between first and second half... so, it's useless. The BS about setting the stage was never an issue before.

The whole system just play in favour for uninspired manufactured songs likeble for the juries, Eurovision has become a tv talent show alike instead of being a celebration. Stop that!
 

rasmuslights

Veteran
Joined
November 15, 2020
Posts
2,465
I would start with a trial of 70% televote 30% jury and see the impact this has in a middle term.
The 50-50 was a good idea to balance the political/neighbouring voting in the 2000s, but it has been corrupted and nowadays seems to be dated and unnecessary.
Televoting results show that Western countries can do well without a jury, and countries with big diaspora don't have guaranteed good placing.

I would also return to the draw for the running order. The current allocation makes the results more predicatble, and don't find any logic to draw the halves. They come out witn the BS of balancing the show, I don't think there is an impact. SF2 was one of the most boring shows ever, no matter how you allocate the songs, and we have a few editions with enormous difference of entertainment between first and second half... so, it's useless. The BS about setting the stage was never an issue before.

The whole system just play in favour for uninspired manufactured songs likeble for the juries, Eurovision has become a tv talent show alike instead of being a celebration. Stop that!

I would agree. But this would mean the Netherlands, Sweden, Portugal and Greece doing worse last year just because they sang ballads.

Why are we pretending the televote is always right and the jury is always wrong? Spain finishing even lower this year. We seriously don't need that.
 

cegs5

Well-known member
Joined
March 6, 2012
Posts
6,360
I would agree. But this would mean the Netherlands, Sweden, Portugal and Greece doing worse last year just because they sang ballads.

Why are we pretending the televote is always right and the jury is always wrong? Spain finishing even lower this year. We seriously don't need that.
But we can't expect that what we consider more deserving songs will always do well.

I think about the brand of Eurovision, with a system where juries have more power (because 50/50 is just an illusion, there are not the same amount of people in each side) the trust of the final results is controversial, and people feel not heard or less important if their favourites don't win even if they get smashing televoting victories.

I don't think people vote less for ballads and more for funny songs. There are still balads doing well, even winning like Portugal 2017.
 

rasmuslights

Veteran
Joined
November 15, 2020
Posts
2,465
But we can't expect that what we consider more deserving songs will always do well.

I think about the brand of Eurovision, with a system where juries have more power (because 50/50 is just an illusion, there are not the same amount of people in each side) the trust of the final results is controversial, and people feel not heard or less important if their favourites don't win even if they get smashing televoting victories.

I don't think people vote less for ballads and more for funny songs. There are still balads doing well, even winning like Portugal 2017.

Just because a certain ballad did well in a weak year whichhad literally 0 good upbeat songs doesn't mean that the televote doesn't prefer upbeat songs.

I don't know about you but I do not wanna live in a world where Romania came top 5 in 2017, a world where Moldova finished 2nd in 2022, and a world where Croatia finished in the top 10 in 2022.

A WORLD WHERE NORWAY LITERALLY WON IN 2019?

That just ain't fair. Imagine being an artist like Maro and S10 scoring around 40 points, when a song like Moldova scores 240. Or imagine being Blanca Paloma scoring 5 points when a song like Poland got 90.

Which serious artist would want to enter a competition like that?

50/50 is the best option. Period.
 

rasmuslights

Veteran
Joined
November 15, 2020
Posts
2,465
Just because a certain ballad did well in a weak year where had literally 0 good upbeat songs doesn't mean that the televote doesn't prefer upbeat songs.

I don't know about you but I do not wanna live in a world where Romania came top 5 in 2017, a world where Moldova finished 2nd in 2022, and a world where Croatia finished in the top 10 in 2022.

A WORLD WHERE NORWAY LITERALLY WON IN 2019?

That just ain't fair. Imagine being an artist like Maro and S10 scoring around 40 points, when a song like Moldova scores 240. Or imagine being Blanca Paloma scoring 5 points when a song like Poland got 90.

Which serious artist would want to enter a competition like that?

50/50 is the best option. Period.

And Eurovision should be worried about that - getting good, serious artists to eurovision.


And not about the Käärijä fans being sad that their fave didn't win.

Loreen was 2nd in the televote and 1st in the jury. She won fair and square. Käärijä got his 2nd place fair and square.

50/50 works. Maybe some countries that rely on gimmicks and diaspora every year (not talking about finland but about Moldova for example) should reconsider their strategy if they want to win.
 
Top Bottom