Grinch
Well-known member
- Joined
- March 13, 2011
- Posts
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In a perfect world, there would be no juries at allIn a perfect world juries would vote in the semis and televoters in the Final. but the world is corrupted
In a perfect world, there would be no juries at allIn a perfect world juries would vote in the semis and televoters in the Final. but the world is corrupted
Totally agree with the idea that it would have been possible for a jury reform rather than completely scrapping their vote in the semis. This is obviously operating under the assumption that last year's jury rigging was the catalyst for these changes, but we could definitely help to reduce the rigging by:
Point 3 might seem tedious, but it would also ensure that people who volunteer to be part of a country's jury actually want to be there and have a genuine interest in the contest.
- Increasing each jury size
- Going back to the pre-2021 system where jury votes are NOT anonymous
- Requiring jury members to write a short statement justifying their rankings and explaining why they placed each song in each place.
Another option I've seen floating around is the idea that we have 5 jury qualifiers and 5 televote qualifiers (top 5 jury + top 5 televote who haven't already qualified with the jury).
Doing it this way (rather than top 5 televote + top 5 jury who haven't already qualified with the televote) would ensure that countries who place 5-10 in the televote would still be able to qualify as long as they receive a high jury score too.
This system would have resulted in:
2010 Semi 1
instead of
JURY: Belgium, Portugal, Greece, Albania, Bosnia
TELE: Iceland, Russia, Serbia, Finland, Belarus
2010 Semi 2
instead of
JURY: Georgia, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Israel, Armenia
TELE: Romania, Denmark, Ukraine, Lithuania, Sweden
2011 Semi 1
instead of
JURY: Lithuania, Azerbaijan, Iceland, Serbia, Finland
TELE: Greece, Russia, Georgia, Armenia, Hungary
2011 Semi 2
instead of
JURY: Slovenia, Denmark, Sweden, Austria, Romania
TELE: Bosnia, Ukraine, Ireland, Moldova, Belarus
2012 Semi 1
instead of
JURY: Albania, Moldova, Greece, Cyprus, Romania
TELE: Russia, Ireland, Iceland, Denmark, Switzerland
2012 Semi 2
Same qualifiers
JURY: Sweden, Serbia, Ukraine, Estonia, Malta
TELE: Lithuania, Turkey, Norway, Bosnia, Macedonia
2013 Semi 1 (hypothetically)
instead of (oof no Anouk hurts)
JURY: Denmark, Russia, Moldova, Ukraine, Austria
TELE: Montenegro, Lithuania, Ireland, Belgium, Belarus
2013 Semi 2 (hypothetically)
instead of
JURY: Malta, Azerbaijan, Greece, Norway, Georgia
TELE: Romania, Switzerland, Bulgaria, Hungary, Iceland
2014 Semi 1
instead of
JURY: Netherlands, Sweden, Hungary, Armenia, Azerbaijan
TELE: Ukraine, Russia, Portugal, San Marino, Iceland
2014 Semi 2
Same qualifiers
JURY: Austria, Finland, Malta, Norway, Romania
TELE: Poland, Switzerland, Greece, Belarus, Slovenia
2015 Semi 1
instead of
JURY: Russia, Belgium, Greece, Georgia, Netherlands
TELE: Estonia, Romania, Armenia, Serbia, Albania
2015 Semi 2
instead of
JURY: Sweden, Latvia, Norway, Israel, Malta
TELE: Poland, Lithuania, Slovenia, Cyprus, Montenegro
2016 Semi 1
instead of
JURY: Malta, Russia, Armenia, Czechia, Netherlands
TELE: Austria, Hungary, Cyprus, Azerbaijan, Bosnia
2016 Semi 2
instead of
JURY: Australia, Belgium, Ukraine, Israel, Lithuania
TELE: Poland, Bulgaria, Latvia, Macedonia, Belarus
2017 Semi 1
Same qualifiers
JURY: Portugal, Australia, Sweden, Moldova, Azerbaijan
TELE: Belgium, Cyprus, Poland, Armenia, Greece
2017 Semi 2
instead of
JURY: Bulgaria, Netherlands, Norway, Austria, Denmark
TELE: Hungary, Romania, Israel, Croatia, Estonia
2018 Semi 1
Same qualifiers
JURY: Israel, Austria, Albania, Bulgaria, Czechia
TELE: Cyprus, Estonia, Ireland, Finland, Lithuania
2018 Semi 2
instead of
JURY: Sweden, Norway, Australia, Netherlands, Malta
TELE: Denmark, Moldova, Ukraine, Hungary, Serbia
2019 Semi 1
instead of
JURY: Czechia, Greece, Australia, Cyprus, Serbia
TELE: Iceland, Estonia, San Marino, Slovenia, Poland
2019 Semi 2
instead of
JURY: Macedonia, Sweden, Netherlands, Malta, Azerbaijan
TELE: Norway, Switzerland, Russia, Lithuania, Albania
2021 Semi 1
instead of
JURY: Malta, Russia, Ukraine, Israel, Cyprus
TELE: Lithuania, Azerbaijan, Norway, Croatia, Sweden
2021 Semi 2
instead of
JURY: Switzerland, Bulgaria, Iceland, Portugal, Greece
TELE: Finland, Moldova, Denmark, Serbia, San Marino
2022 Semi 1
instead of
JURY: Greece, Netherlands, Ukraine, Portugal, Switzerland
TELE: Moldova, Armenia, Norway, Lithuania, Albania
2022 Semi 2
instead of
JURY: Sweden, Australia, Estonia, Belgium, Czechia
TELE: Serbia, Poland, Romania, Finland, Cyprus
- Viewer votes will decide countries qualifying from Semi-Finals
- Viewers in non-participating countries will be able to vote online
- Jury votes will be combined with votes from the global audience to decide final result
Those watching in the rest of the world will be able to vote via a secure online platform using a credit card from their country, and their votes, once added together, will be converted into points that will have the same weight as one participating country in both of the Semi-Finals and the Grand Final.
I think that's just another way of saying "Jury votes will be combined with public vote to decide the final results", as in, saying that the final result will still be 50/50 as before.So… just for clarification… maybe someone can explain further…
From the Official Eurovision site:
Did I get it right that all televotes from non participating countries are gathered, added and the result counts as ONE (global) country?
But what does it mean "Jury votes will be combined with votes from the global audience to decide final result“ ?
Is it the same as it has been the past years or do they go back to the roots and only show the combined results or does it even mean the global vote (non participating countries) are added to the jury vote?
In the long term, this is going to end up being a bad move on EBU's part. Jury/Televote has been a staple and there was no reason to remove it.
It's upsetting that when faced with an issue (jury vote fraud), instead of trying to fix said issue, they (Martin Ö) just decide to remove the entire jury voting - which is the most extreme measure to take. Juries have been the same since 2009 and maybe it was time for a revamp of the way the they are formed, total head-count and monitoring on them - none of those was tried before removing the whole jury for the semis, which strikes me as poor decision making.
My opinion is less about countries being screwed/blessed* with this rule and whether it's going to affect the final results. It's more about how a huge organisation would rather tear the whole house away because of a broken fixture.
*although this rule does severely hinder countries like Malta, Czechia, Australia who are more jury friendly countries.
Not to mention 100% televote for semis and a production decided running order is just production having too much power on which countries get the sweet spots.
I‘m quite torn because I actually want the juries gone since they are much more and easier to be influenced than the televoters.
On the other hand, I‘m a sucker for big ballads and great voices and some of them only made it with the help of juries.
But, in the end, one or two really good ballads will make it nonetheless, even if there are no juries. Some people love ballads too.
So, after weighing all the pros and cons, I think this is the best solution they can come up with. People only decide which songs make it to the final but in the final, these songs are judged both by televoters and professionally by juries.
Also, people from all over the world can vote now, and their vote is combined as one country, which is a good idea because different countries = different tastes. Only the best songs will manage to gather points from many countries. It shows if a song has international appeal.
Im pretty sure the EBU didnt get rid of the Juries in the Semi because of the Corruption-Scandal, otherwise they would have eliminated them in the Final as well.
Imo the Reason for this Rulechange is solely Azerbaijans Qualification with 0 TV-Points.
The EBU will never ever get rid again of the Juries. They are scared that Songs like Moldova end up winning without Juries.
Indeed, entries like 2022 still qualify ( and don´t but I wouldn´t describe them as "amazing ballads" even though I really liked both songs).
The huge advantage the new rule provides, however, is that it´s more unlikely to get points in televoting in the GF because the EBU makes sure that all countries in the Final finished Top 10 in the televoting in the semi finals.
Granted, it´s still possible for a few Big 5 countries to get points (like 2021 if they all sent crap) but we won´t be seeing to (2016), to (2017) or to (2022) anymore which will also be less "embarrassing" for artists in the green room.