New voting system - removal of juries from the semi - global vote

[mauve]

I prefer Juries being not involved in the Semis, but I guess after ESC 2023 is over, people will say: "With the old system A or B would have qualified." There will always be acts who are winners and losers. Let us see how things will develop - if countries will really change the way of choosing acts as there will be no Juries in the Semis anymore.
A change can be a good thing, but might also evolve into a direction we don't want to.

 

[A-lister]

is the only Country with a 100% Qualification Rate with Televote only since 2009.

Funny is that parts of the fandom still to this very date think that Sweden only qualifies and succeeds thanks to the juries when fact of the matter is that it was the juries, not the televote, that blocked Sweden from qualifying in 2010 and most of the times Sweden has been in the top. 10 in the final with televotes alone so...

 

[Zeus]

Meh, even more novelty and kitschy songs in the final. Not for me, but I might not belong to the general Eurovision-public in the first place so yeah, cares.

At the same time the jury will have a bigger influence in the final. Maybe people who like this idea because boohoo juries didn't really think about this, but yeah, all these televote-friendly songs will battle each other out and the juries have less songs to totally support. Last year for example, no Switzerland and Azerbaijan could have meant an even better score for Australia, Greece and/or the UK

 

[A-lister]

Meh, even more novelty and kitschy songs in the final. Not for me, but I might not belong to the general Eurovision-public in the first place so yeah, cares.

At the same time the jury will have a bigger influence in the final. Maybe people who like this idea because boohoo juries didn't really think about this, but yeah, all these televote-friendly songs will battle each other out and the juries have less songs to totally support. Last year for example, no Switzerland and Azerbaijan could have meant an even better score for Australia, Greece and/or the UK

Yeah the juries will for sure clinge onto those dated ballads that no radio programmer or playlists would even touch with a mile long stick... so yeah there is always a risk they will boost them even further now but hopefully most of the worst ones (that the juries love) won't even see the finals any longer so hopefully it's all for the better...

 

[Zeus]

Yeah the juries will for sure clinge onto those dated ballads that no radio programmer or playlists would even touch with a mile long stick... so yeah there is always a risk they will boost them even further now but hopefully most of the worst ones (that the juries love) won't even see the finals any longer so hopefully it's all for the better...

Basically you're talking to yourself.

 

[A-lister]

Basically you're talking to yourself.

So are you...

You are quick calling things alot of people like "kitschy" while you hail juries taste in dated ballads that might have been picked up by some radio programmers back in 1992 or been pushed on American Idol around 2005...

Just different taste, but your taste is not objectively better than others... just saying

You can laugh all you want at what you consider "kitsch", but it's a bit funny while in the same breath applauding the juries that vote for probably the kitschiest stuff of all... there is hardly any more merit in some cheesy dated generic ballad than in a fun bop... let's not delude ourselves here shall we.

 

[Zeus]

Not for me, but I might not belong to the general Eurovision-public in the first place so yeah, cares.

I literally said this right after it. The only one who is presenting his subjective opinion as if it's a given fact are you at the moment.

And yeah, you can repeat the same frames over and over again, but you're not really making things better from my point of view with talking about what radio-stations would play and that 'ballads' (I don't even know to which songs you are refering to, 'ballads' isn't a genre or anything) are dated but popsongs with a beat ('bops' I guess?) aren't dated but modern. Well, most of these songs in ESC aren't creative or refreshing at all as a lot of them stick to very standard, well-known basic schemes in modern day (pop)music, but okay. Your party.

 

[A-lister]

I literally said this right after it. The only one who is presenting his subjective opinion as if it's a given fact are you at the moment.

Actually not, but whatever.

And yeah, you can repeat the same frames over and over again, but you're not really making things better from my point of view with talking about what radio-stations would play and that 'ballads' (I don't even know to which songs you are refering to, 'ballads' isn't a genre or anything) are dated but popsongs with a beat ('bops' I guess?) aren't dated but modern. Well, most of these songs in ESC aren't creative or refreshing at all as a lot of them stick to very standard, well-known basic schemes in modern day (pop)music, but okay. Your party.

Of course there are different sort of ballads, however the sort juries tend to push in Eurovision are hardly modern or interesting... but I think we can agree on that most is pretty basic and not very groundbreaking but I reacted on that the juries are somehow better than the public... which I strongly disagree with.

 

[Leydan]

Wow, I hate it.

Terrible decision. We're going back to the mid noughties everyone!!!

don't threaten me with a good time.

The noughties had some absolute bangers.

 

[Zeus]

Actually not, but whatever.

Of course there are different sort of ballads, however the sort juries tend to push in Eurovision are hardly modern or interesting... but I think we can agree on that most is pretty basic and not very groundbreaking but I reacted on that the juries are somehow better than the public... which I strongly disagree with.

I didn't say 'juries are better'. And I can even agree that for example last year Switzerland was a bland song and Azerbaijan wasn't anything spectacular (besides a very strong vocal performance, which for me does deserve some credits the public often doesn't give). But most of you're reaction is basically assuming things at this point.

 

[A-lister]

I didn't say 'juries are better'. And I can even agree that for example last year Switzerland was a bland song and Azerbaijan wasn't anything spectacular (besides a very strong vocal performance, which for me does deserve some credits the public often doesn't give). But most of you're reaction is basically assuming things at this point.

So I misunderstood your point, my mistake.

 

[Mainshow]

DIASPORA WILL HAVE A BIG IMPACT AND COUNTRIES SUCH AS POLAND WILL ALWAYS QUALIFY
Poland hasn´t qualified three times in a row whilst we still had 100% televoting: 2005, 2006, 2007.
The country almost didn´t make it in 2008, either and ironically, it was saved as the "jury qualifier".
Poland didn´t qualify in 2021, either.
I´m not naive. There are some diaspora effects but I think they are "less effective" than corrupted jurry votes (or them downvoting songs based on politics).

SMALLER COUNTRIES WITH NO DIASPORA OR FRIENDLY NEIGHBOURS WILL NOT QUALIFY ANYMORE
Ironically, juries prevented Switzerland from qualify in 2017, 2013 and 2012 - the televoters voted for the Swiss entries.
Also, Malta received its best results thanks to 100% televoting, e.g. 2005.
Countries such as Ireland, the Netherlands, (Croatia), Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Switzerland, Portugal would have all been saved by the televoters at least once - without having "too many friends/diaspora" in other countries.

TELEVOTING WILL BRING THE 00´s BACK AND WE WILL ONLY HAVE FEMALE BOPS AND CAMP ENTRIES IN THE GF
Televoters wanted to see "Blackbird" (Finland 2017) in the final - whilst the jury robbed it.
The juries also heavily voted for Ukraine 2012 and made a camp performance qualify - Even bigger countries with much bloc voting and friendly neighbours won´t be qualifying if the song is not good enough!
2021 saw many female up-tempo songs - some of them sounding quite mid 00-ish due to their (fake) ethno production and yet, they didn´t make the televoting Top 10 such as , , , (and to some extent, ).
Some people somehow think that only songs such as "Dustin The Turkey" and "Baila El Chiki Chiki" would be qualifying from now on.
Eurovision has progressed. Its viewers have progressed. The music scene has changed.
In recent years, only 1 (max 2) qualifier(s) of each semi would have been different anyway.

Also, no "joke entry" made it in 2009 - even though we had the same system (televoting 100% for 9 qualifiers, 1 "jury qualifier") and neither Belgium, nor Czech Republic or Latvia advanced to the final - the Czech Republic even received 0 pts.
"Joke" entries have been on the verge of dying back in 2006 already... Silvia Night says hello (or Dustin The Turkey in 2008).

 

[Mainshow]

Do you guys still remember how San Marino´s aggregated and fake televoting awared 10 points to Greece even though only Cyprus gave 12 points to the song (and Albania awared 2 pts to "Better Love"?).

Due to the new rules, San Marino hopes that the EBU will allow some "online voting" for San Marino to prevent such outrageously and ridiculously fake/crap "votes" from happening.

Speaking to San Marino RTV, Alessandro Capicchioni commented:

It could be an opportunity to implement televoting also in San Marino using the new online systems instead of telephone calling.

🇸🇲 San Marino: Voting Changes Give San Marino Chance to Have Public Vote - Eurovoix

The introduction of a new online voting platform for the Eurovision Song Contest offers new opportunities according to the San Marinese Head of Delegation.

eurovoix.com

 

[Mainshow]

Sietse Bakker backed up all the new changes on Twitter:

To all Eurovision fans: Abolishment of the language rule and the orchestra, introduction of a Semi-Final (and then another one), re-introduction of the juries, change in voting presentation, Australia joining... Contest still there, stronger than ever. Have a little faith!

This was a decision by the Reference Group, which is being refreshed with new members every year, balancing many years of experience with new perspectives.

Following the unprecedented voting irregularities we saw this year, we looked at ways to protect the integrity of the competition. The problem occurred in the Semi-Finals, this was the best way to end it. Also, difference of who qualifies in public v. public+jury vote is minimal.

Semi-Final jury removed after Eurovision 2022 voting irregularities

EBU Reference Group member Sietse Bakker wrote in a tweet that the semi-final juries were removed after the Eurovision 2022 irregularities.

wiwibloggs.com

 

[Mainshow]

The New York Times have already reported on the new changes:

Americans Will (Probably) Be Able to Vote in Eurovision Next Year​

For the first time, people in nonparticipating countries will be allowed to vote for their favorite songs. The contest announced changes after it found “voting irregularities” in the 2022 competition.

Americans Will (Probably) Be Able to Vote in Eurovision Next Year

For the first time, people in nonparticipating countries will be allowed to vote for their favorite songs. The contest announced changes after it found “voting irregularities” in the 2022 competition.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Looren]

Have no idea what to think about this, juries saved some great entries, as well as televote did, thought the precedent system was good tbh

Well let's wait and see

 

[Mainshow]

Have no idea what to think about this, juries saved some great entries, as well as televote did, thought the precedent system was good tbh

Well let's wait and see

I somehow agree with you - I mean, juries saved a couple of quality entries (but they didn´t make all quality entries qualify).

Why do I still prefer this new system?

I can totally live with some diaspora and bloc-voting effects when it comes to the televoting (it´s simply natural and demographics + socio-culturally it makes sense) - but I have zero tolerance for bloc vocting and corruption in the jury voting as well as some jury members being too stupid and dumb to not vote upside down (two single members prevented Poland and Lithuania from qualifying in 2019) and jury member voting down entries because of politics (Azerbaijan/Armenia say hello) or jurys voting down big favourites from the betting odds (Russia) whilst juries got introduced to "even out" the flaws of the televoting.

Both votings have their advantages and disadvantages but juries didn´t really "make it fairer" in the semi finals - especially several juries used the system to make their "friends" and "bankrollers" qualify.

A few jury members voting based on politics and money in the Grand Final have not such a big impact (since they don´t prevent songs from qualifying by favoring entries because of unfair reasons). No one cares if a song ends up being #10 or #11 in the grand final (apart from a few fans). - The semi finals are "trickier".

 

[Looren]

I somehow agree with you - I mean, juries saved a couple of quality entries (but they didn´t make all quality entries qualify).

Why do I still prefer this new system?

I can totally live with some diaspora and bloc-voting effects when it comes to the televoting (it´s simply natural and demographics + socio-culturally it makes sense) - but I have zero tolerance for bloc vocting and corruption in the jury voting as well as some jury members being too stupid and dumb to not vote upside down (two single members prevented Poland and Lithuania from qualifying in 2019) and jury member voting down entries because of politics (Azerbaijan/Armenia say hello) or jurys voting down big favourites from the betting odds (Russia) whilst juries got introduced to "even out" the flaws of the televoting.

Both votings have their advantages and disadvantages but juries didn´t really "make it fairer" in the semi finals - especially several juries used the system to make their "friends" and "bankrollers" qualify.

A few jury members voting based on politics and money in the Grand Final have not such a big impact (since they don´t prevent songs from qualifying by favoring entries because of unfair reasons). No one cares if a song ends up being #10 or #11 in the grand final (apart from a few fans). - The semi finals are "trickier".

Yeah generaly agree with you, you have good points, nothing to say there

 

[Ana Raquel]

don't threaten me with a good time.

The noughties had some absolute bangers.

SPILL

My favorite decade plus my favorite sequence of winners? I mean from Sertab to Marija is pretty much

2005 to 2009?

 

[blue00eyes]

I think I like the new system, it gives people full power to decide what they actually want to hear again during GF. I am only afraid that crazy useless songs will easily make it and the running order will have even more impact. Juries can kill useless songs in the GF though.

I am against ROW random results. Imagine if their score decided the winner...