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Croatia CROATIA 2023 - Let 3 - Mama ŠČ!

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ESC United Mod Team

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elanyvx

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The intention is to go to more evenings, to pass more songs in this selection, therefore a maximum of 28, so we would go to two semi-finals and final show - said Štengl, talking about Dora 2023.

 

Bmbriga

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Sure, because last year's 14 songs were so good we all definitely want to hear 28. 😭

But maybe it's good, maybe they mange to create some half-hype. Although, we already tried Semi-Finals before and, if I'm not mistaken, it was a flop.
 
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FOLK - 60's - 90's Bosnian and Serbian traditional music recorded in studios, setting aside rules of composition of traditional music, while maintaining traditional vocalization techinques. Early example of Serbian traditional folk...

Silvana Armenulic


Of Bosnian, e.g. Halid Muslimovic...


Then came more modern arrangements mixing studio folk with dance, pop, latin, turkish or arab dance. Best example - Lepa Brena

More poppish version, a must hear haha for Hungarian friends


More oriental version...this one is a must see for Turkish friends


TURBOFOLK: Starting from the 90's, mixing of previous studio folk with digital techno, house dance matrix, most commonly bought as a final product from Greek or Turkish or Bulgarian producers. Best examples

Early, Aca Lukas or Dragana Mirkovic



Or more modern Jelena Karleusa and Seka Aleksic



As you may notice, there was a long run between Silvana and Seka or Jelena in folk and turbofolk.

In conclusion, apart from Severina and Jelena Rozga who make their recordings in Serbia, there's no such music in Croatia.

Croatia's "zabavna" music is a mix of pop and old Dalmatian traditionals similar to Italian music or Slavonian traditional music which is similar to Hungarian, very cheerful and uptempo.

For example, CRO Slavonian zabavna, best example Miroslav Skoro


Or CRO Dalmatian zabavna, best example Oliver Dragojevic



Therefore, there is a clear difference from the rest of the Balkans, folk or turbofolk.

Croatian term "cajke" as reference to Bosnian Macedonian or Serbian folk and turbofolk means nothing literally. It was created as a slang among "intellectuals" who mock Croatian Balkan heritage or the rest of Balkans and deem Balkan music as something that only stupid and uneducated listen to.

For example, these people claim that Zeljko Joksimovic or Tose Proeski or Jelena Tomasevic are folk, turbofolk, "cajke", just because of their vibrato vocalization technique and their place of birth, whereas all compositions or matrixes used by the studios of these artist are pure pop or dance music.
 
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Mainshow

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Croatia used to be my favourite country in Eurovision but there´s no need of coming up with more content/entries in a national final... the last two editions just got 2 good songs each.

If they really want to extend the number of participants, they really need to step up their game and come up with something bolder, more daring and competitive.
 
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Croatia used to be my favourite country in Eurovision but there´s no need of coming up with more content/entries in a national final... the last two editions just got 2 good songs each.

If they really want to extend the number of participants, they really need to step up their game and come up with something bolder, more daring and competitive.

That's because CRO ESC bubble makes this hustle or pressure for certain type of old ESC music to be presented on Dora, due to which original artists refuse to take part in it.

For example, you might recall Mia Negovetic the Disney Princess taking part several times on Dora as one of the favorites.

Actually, what she presented on Dora in collab with foreign Swedish mafia haha was never her style actually, because 6 months after Dora and admmiting she won't ever take part in it, she published THIS song and video


As everyone can notice, this is far from the persona or music she presented at Dora. 😁
 

Euterpa

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I am FOR semifinals. Only 14 places in the final meant that the broadcaster couldn't say no to bigger names, and there was no space for younger artists to show what they got. Yes, HRT could in theory say "no" to bigger names, but I think those names would have a public meltdown "how DARE they not accept my song". Then the whole Croatian public would join in with "how DARE they disprespect our professional artists like that and accept songs from a bunch of no-names". They have already been complaining about newer artists like Eric, although Eric is really talented and has a lot of potential. They also forget that our bigger names were also no-names in Dora once. When Nina Badrić first performed in Dora, barely anyone knew who she was.

Maybe a good question is also would Konstrakta get a chance in a smaller final? She was completely under anyone's radar before the actual semifinal.

Our new and small artists know when they see there is space for only 14, that they have almost no chance. This might grow their confidence and hopefully motivate them to try.

I truly believe that we lose at least one very good song per Dora because a bigger name gets the spot, even with a worse song. That's just how stuff in Croatia works. And yeah, I know that some songs that haven't been accepted for Dora got released later and that they turned out really not that special, but...there are also songs that get submitted, don't pass the selection and the artists don't release them at all because they believe in those songs. So they keep working on them and keep submitting them hoping that they will get that spot once (I know of one such case actually).

Croatia *has* some options. But the question is how to motivate young and talented artists who think that being selected for Dora and then succeed in Eurovision as a Croatian representative is a mission impossible.

I would love a song like this in Dora. I hope we'll get it.
 
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^^^ This Miach is some old 90's German house or dance we can skip fast forward. 🤣

There aren't actually many young people in CRO doing music for real. Like really composing for themselves, or at least well educated in history of music and different genres, or taking practice on some instruments, or having a garage and a band, or a decent studio where they experiment for fun.

Most of these young new artist are vocalist only. Just that. Addicted to Jesse James or Dua Lipa or Billie. Waiting for somebody to pop them a bomb song. Which never comes. Because CRO producers live in 00's still. That's it. Depressing, I know. 🤣

Look at the last CRO arist at the ESC who's been successul - that's Jacques.

We may like or dislike him or his entry, but apart from being a vocalist, he writes his own music and he always had his own thing or concept about how to express and place that music to the public.
 
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Euterpa

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I don't hear 90's, house, nor dance there. But oh well...

Jacques was successful because he made a risky and borderline crazy choice that paid off, not because of his songwriting skills.
Croatia's choice this year (and a much of Dora's selection) is safe and boring.

And there's nothing wrong with being a vocalist only. Our artists can work with any songwriter in the world, they don't have to rely on our songwriters...
 

elanyvx

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Please Croatia, she took part in the serbian program IDJ Show, 6th place but amazing for the future.

 
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I don't hear 90's, house, nor dance there. But oh well...

Jacques was successful because he made a risky and borderline crazy choice that paid off, not because of his songwriting skills.
Croatia's choice this year (and a much of Dora's selection) is safe and boring.

And there's nothing wrong with being a vocalist only. Our artists can work with any songwriter in the world, they don't have to rely on our songwriters...

It's always about songwriting, and Jacques' is superb no matter how clownish the song or performance was, you have to have a professional ear to hear it. 😉

Whereas most of the past Doras included average or minus average songwriting performed by unoriginal artists who don't feel what they sing.

You can buy the best song ever, but if you don't know how to perform it, you're dead. Nobody hears it.

E.g. give Ella Oreskovic to sing Billie Jean, I'd fall asleep anyway. 🤣

That's why there's Taylor Swift and a wannabe Taylor Swift from Osijek, Croatia.

Noone can make you an artist. You either have it or you don't. You are either a musical genius or a real composer, or you have what it takes to be a star regardless of not being a musical genius.
 

Mainshow

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All I know that all three videos you guys posted were superior to anything I heard in Dora in the last two years (minus "Rijeka") :D
 

A-lister

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Wait I'm confused at the discussion, "Croatian acts flops because they don't write their own songs"? Many Pop acts in and outside of ESC don't write their own songs, sure one can discuss "artistic input" all day long, but that's not the reason for floppage. The reason is simply that the songs that have been given to these artists are lame.

Croatia's main issue is that many songs have no character or anything Croatian about them, some sound like desperate attempts at sounding "western" but end up as some demo songs for what could have maybe been a radio song like 10+ years ago. Croatia should look more inwards and less outwards because let's be frank, those songwriters that seem to have MF as some sort of guideline don't comprehend how to make good Pop and therefor it all comes down as flat and inauthentic. At least if they knew how to make a proper "western" pop song then ok fair enough, but they don't so why this urge? Same can be said about many other countries as well.
 

hijirio

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Wait I'm confused at the discussion, "Croatian acts flops because they don't write their own songs"? Many Pop acts in and outside of ESC don't write their own songs, sure one can discuss "artistic input" all day long, but that's not the reason for floppage. The reason is simply that the songs that have been given to these artists are lame.

Croatia's main issue is that many songs have no character or anything Croatian about them, some sound like desperate attempts at sounding "western" but end up as some demo songs for what could have maybe been a radio song like 10+ years ago. Croatia should look more inwards and less outwards because let's be frank, those songwriters that seem to have MF as some sort of guideline don't comprehend how to make good Pop and therefor it all comes down as flat and inauthentic. At least if they knew how to make a proper "western" pop song then ok fair enough, but they don't so why this urge? Same can be said about many other countries as well.
I agree, one time in the past decade they decided to something traditional, it was in 2013 but they really didn't understand the assignment :D It was textbook definition of clownery.
They should really go more in Severina direction, she is a national treasure that Croatia should protect at all costs.
 

Yazy

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It was textbook definition of clownery *crack-smokery.
.............yep.

But on a serious note, they didn´t even know what they actually wanted to achieve that year.

Their goals were to:
Goal #1 - present the culture
Goal #2 - but also somehow manage to modernize it to attract more votes (thinking that more modern pop arrangement would attract more people to like it xstars).

In the end they accomplished neither.

The song melody itself was not engaging and the pop arrangement ended up watering down something that was supposed to have an authentic sound (the authentic sound in mind being a very minimal arrangement with acoustic guitar and maybe one more folk instrument and everything else being just acapella singing).

The song was never strong enough to qualify, but honestly, Goal #1 could have been achieved.
 

Euterpa

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It's always about songwriting, and Jacques' is superb no matter how clownish the song or performance was, you have to have a professional ear to hear it. 😉

Whereas most of the past Doras included average or minus average songwriting performed by unoriginal artists who don't feel what they sing.

You can buy the best song ever, but if you don't know how to perform it, you're dead. Nobody hears it.

E.g. give Ella Oreskovic to sing Billie Jean, I'd fall asleep anyway. 🤣

That's why there's Taylor Swift and a wannabe Taylor Swift from Osijek, Croatia.

Noone can make you an artist. You either have it or you don't. You are either a musical genius or a real composer, or you have what it takes to be a star regardless of not being a musical genius.

Can an actress/actor be good if s/he didn't write her/his own screenplay? A good one can convey emotions to the audience, even if s/he doesn't really feel them. The same is true for singers. A good singer should be a good interpreter, too. Jacques is a great interpreter. He wrote "kao heroj kao heroj, i moj i tvoj, ljubav je heroj", what's superb about that? I admire him as a singer but I'd say that his songwriting skills aren't the main thing about him.

Futhermore, if what you're saying was true, then no talent show contestant ever could possibly wow the audience with his/her performance. And we know very well that there have been quite a few contestants who made the jury and the audience cry while singing a song they did not write. They had nothing to do with the songs' creative process, yet they just wowed almost everyone with their voice, interpretation, charisma.

It's interesting that Ella Orešković was given as an example because Ella actually wrote her Dora songs. She sang them the way she did because she lacks experience that would give her the needed confidence, and knowledge how to perform well even while under pressure.

Wait I'm confused at the discussion, "Croatian acts flops because they don't write their own songs"? Many Pop acts in and outside of ESC don't write their own songs, sure one can discuss "artistic input" all day long, but that's not the reason for floppage. The reason is simply that the songs that have been given to these artists are lame.

Croatia's main issue is that many songs have no character or anything Croatian about them, some sound like desperate attempts at sounding "western" but end up as some demo songs for what could have maybe been a radio song like 10+ years ago. Croatia should look more inwards and less outwards because let's be frank, those songwriters that seem to have MF as some sort of guideline don't comprehend how to make good Pop and therefor it all comes down as flat and inauthentic. At least if they knew how to make a proper "western" pop song then ok fair enough, but they don't so why this urge? Same can be said about many other countries as well.

Yes to all of this. I would only add that I don't think people mind that there's nothing Croatian about them (as they have no issues with other countries not having anything theirs in their songs), it's more the other part that you wrote...that it's an attempt to sound "western", but it tends to sound like an unfinished job. :( Croatian music has been falling behind in music trends for more than a decade, we can't make up for it in a couple of years. At least not those authors that got stuck in the 00's.
 
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