2019 JURY BEWILDERMENT AND AMUSEMENT THREAD

[A-lister]

these examples are APPALLING and really make me think the current method of making juries rank every single entry is absolutely untenable. it's negatively impacting the results. just make each juror pick a top 10, good lord. add the five top 10s together, check which ten countries got the most points, bam, a jury result. this way we also are spared of the "armenia and azerbaijan ranked each other 26th and BOOOOOO!!!" drama which is more stale than kirkorov's hair at this point.

letting them rank only top 10 songs would just enable them to be more lazy with it. Not sure how to rank Iceland or Portugal? easy, just don't put it in the top ten and no need to judge their performances at all. It would just hide the inconsistencies in the jury voting, not solve them.
Also if say a song was ranked 11th by every juror and than another song would be ranked really high (1st/2nd) by one juror and dead last by every other juror, guess which song would get no points in the end? It wouldn't matter if you're 11th or 26th with the juries anymore.

Both valid, yet contraditive, points...

I think, seeing how the juries behave, we should rather scrap them altogether or limit their powers since clearly no matter what we do they still ruin the show

 

[Alaska49]

letting them rank only top 10 songs would just enable them to be more lazy with it. Not sure how to rank Iceland or Portugal? easy, just don't put it in the top ten and no need to judge their performances at all. It would just hide the inconsistencies in the jury voting, not solve them.
Also if say a song was ranked 11th by every juror and than another song would be ranked really high (1st/2nd) by one juror and dead last by every other juror, guess which song would get no points in the end? It wouldn't matter if you're 11th or 26th with the juries anymore.

but the current exponential model already ensures the song ranked 11th by every juror does not get high points anyway lol. it rewards being ranked high by one or two jurors over being middle of the road with everyone, which i think is correct. i don't think there is a lot of merit in being 11th with everyone, so i don't think they should get points. also, jurors ranking just the top 10 stops anti-voting, which is a thing jurors still do.

Exponential Juryvoting is the perfect Midway between Top10 and linear Top26 Ranking and must stay. Its also more interesting or us Fans to analyze, besides the Fact that its mathematically more just.

as a fellow euronerd i can't resist a chart and a table either, but even the exponential model is still subpar, you have to admit. it's just not worth the wild inconsistencies and the accidental reverse-voting and the anti-voting we don't get if they just pick a top 10. televoters don't need to rank all 26 songs, why should they?

 

[Realest]

Its not the EBUs Fault that some Jurymembers are too dumb for a right Voting. Maybe an IQ-Test would be an Option to select the right Jurors.

Anti-Voting doesnt have much Weight with the exponential Juryvoting, f.e. Israels Juryvote for Austria last Year was [2,2,2,2,25] = 12 Points.

Inconsistencies to some extent are normal, f.e. 2017 I had in my Top6 in the Semi over etc.. but in the Final was in my Bottom5 behind those Countries because
a) He sang much worse
b) Moldova and Greece overshadowed him.

Giving 0 Points to a Song in the Final, who got 10-12 in the Semi isnt much better, so I dont think a Top10 Ranking improved anything. I wrote somewhere else that an Explanation of the Top5 and Bottom5 could prevent extreme unlogical Votes.

 

[Citelis]

Montenegro gave 12p to Greece in the semifinal but in the final they ranked us 20th. That makes no sense to me.

 

[Realest]

Montenegro gave 12p to Greece in the semifinal but in the final they ranked us 20th. That makes no sense to me.

Montenegro often had Jurydeals in the Past. Probably the Deal only counted for the Semi, since Greece also returned a few Points. In the Final there was no Benefit for Montenegro to rank Greece or Sanmarino high anymore.

 

[Citelis]

Montenegro often had Jurydeals in the Past. Probably the Deal only counted for the Semi, since Greece also returned a few Points. In the Final there was no Benefit for Montenegro to rank Greece or Sanmarino high anymore.

Yes there are probably some jury deals between some countries which means there is a lot of corruption on juryvoting. I still support them but seriously there should be a way to avoid this.

 

[Alaska49]

Its not the EBUs Fault that some Jurymembers are too dumb for a right Voting. Maybe an IQ-Test would be an Option to select the right Jurors.

yes, it's not their fault, but how are they going to solve that? IQ tests are pseudo science. they can't keep letting the artists take the consequences of the jurors' incompetence because "it's not their fault" lol. in a perfect world, the exponential jury voting is better, but our world is far from perfect.

Giving 0 Points to a Song in the Final, who got 10-12 in the Semi isnt much better, so I dont think a Top10 Ranking improved anything. I wrote somewhere else that an Explanation of the Top5 and Bottom5 could prevent extreme unlogical Votes.

it improves things because it removes the inconsistencies of people who are not prepared to rank 26 entries from the table. if a song was in your top 2 in the semifinal but by the final you're not that much into it anymore then that's fine, but if because of that you rank it like 19th or 20th because you can't be bothered to actually rank the middle of your table, it looks bad.

like, it's not much of a difference at the end of the day, i guess, but it mostly makes juries look a lot less stupid, so it's a huge positive for everyone.

 

[Realest]

MAURO SEVERONI

#1
#2
#3
#4
#5
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#18

 

[Citelis]

Amazing top 2.

 

[Realest]

Eurovisionario
‏eurovisionario
38 Min.Vor 38 Minuten

Cambio de opinión:

Votación de Verica Culjkovic (Jurado) en la #EuroSemi1:

1. Grecia
2. Chipre
3. Serbia
5. San Marino

Votación de Verica Culjkovic en la Final de #Eurovision:

1. Serbia
24. Chipre
25. Grecia
26. San Marino

 

[Realest]

18/95 Jurymembers had in their Top5. Not Bad.

Jurado - Posicionaron a Montenegro en el Top 5:
1Sanja I. 1Aleksandra M. 1Leontina 1Silvana 1Voja
1Elia G. 1Marilia R. 2 Sabrina M. 3 Paolo R. 4 Danilo B.
4 Mark C.
4 Kiki
4 Jitka Z.
4 DJ Chris P 5 Andrie M.
5 Nikos 5 Thanasis A.
5 Sole G.

 

[BorisBubbles]

Its not the EBUs Fault that some Jurymembers are too dumb for a right Voting. Maybe an IQ-Test would be an Option to select the right Jurors.

Rubbish. It IS the EBU's fault. What's preventing them from giving the jurors a simple, uniform instruction on how to use the software? Some of these people are in their 60s and come from poor countries, assuming *everyone* knows how to use a computer is ludicrous. What's preventing them from having a handler near the jurors who double checks whether they're implimenting their votes correctly? What's preventing them from telling jurors NOT to disclose how they voted until the winner's been picked? Clearly nothing prevented Björkman from giving instructions on how to vote in both the second SF and the GF due to the technical difficulties which took place.

The incorrect voting comes from a lack of information and instruction provided by the associated broadcasters, which is an organisational flaw. The end responsibility for organisation lies with the EBU. Hence, why it's their fault.

 

[Etanna]

Rubbish. It IS the EBU's fault. What's preventing them from giving the jurors a simple, uniform instruction on how to use the software? Some of these people are in their 60s and come from poor countries, assuming *everyone* knows how to use a computer is ludicrous. What's preventing them from having a handler near the jurors who double checks whether they're implimenting their votes correctly? What's preventing them from telling jurors NOT to disclose how they voted until the winner's been picked? Clearly nothing prevented Björkman from giving instructions on how to vote in both the second SF and the GF due to the technical difficulties which took place.

The incorrect voting comes from a lack of information and instruction provided by the associated broadcasters, which is an organisational flaw. The end responsibility for organisation lies with the EBU. Hence, why it's their fault.

Yeah, the errors that have occurred could have been prevented by being clearer with the instructions (the Belarusian jury clearly wasn't aware of all the conditions it entails - it's hard to believe they breached the rules intentionally because that would just be too stupid) and by having somebody overlook/verify everything (that could have helped prevent the upside-down voting and the messed up aggregated Belarusian votes).

Also, I agree about the age/cultural problems - it is something the EBU needs to respect when they work with such a diverse group of people. The instructions should therefore be as clear as possible. By the way, are the instructions in English or in native languages? Because that could also explain a lot since many people struggle with English.

 

[Realest]

in the First Semi.

[1,1,1,1,1]
[16,16,16,16,16)

Also one of the macedonian Juries, with albanian Roots ranked first.

Uku Suviste (), half Russian who knows Kirkorov personally and got his Eesti-Laul-Song revamped by him, ranked first.

 

[Loindici]

Anyway, would there be any possibility that the broadcaster themselves are the one messing up the results (both jury and televote), since they (probably) collect the results first then reports it to the contest committee?

I can imagine the rep of broadcaster instructing yhe juries "No matter what you vote for, always put Montenegro/Serbia or Greece/Cyprus first" "No matter what you do, always put Azerbaijan/Armenia last" "Make sure the aggregate score for Sweden stays at no.1" or some sort of those.

Or in case of televote, "Just report that Armenia is last".

 

[HayashiM]

[MENTION=16467]VirginiaVision[/MENTION], [MENTION=16481]BorisBubbles[/MENTION]

We ordinary fan people changing our minds within a few days - yeah, that's fine and expected, though I truly don't expect anyone to go from my top 5 to my bottom 5 or vice versa within such a short time, EVER. Even my grower of the year Iceland has only managed to get from 40th to 20th - ish and Switzerland last year from 38th to 15th - ish).

But for a PROFESSIONAL jury member, to have such a change of heart in 2-4 days speaks volumes of their "professionalism". There just isn't any.
I don't care how many of my favourites the juries have pushed. With all this political voting and blunders from their part, they're ridiculous! I'd rather go 4th with Mikolas and bottom 5 with Lake Malawi than having their scores "normalized", as much as I love Friend of a Friend and don't quite like Lie to me.

Vox populi, vox Dei. Down with the juries!

(Also, I can't grasp how can these Greece / Cyprus and Azerbaijan / Armenia issues be tolerated at all. Do you guys keep perpetuating the same political pattern year after year after year? Fine - sorry to all your fans, but let's ban you for a year or two and see if it changes. If not, get out for a decade. This is what hurts Eurovision much more than any of the so called "joke entries".)

 

[Realest]

I think around 80-85% of all Jurymembers are totally uncorrupt and fair. Here in western (except Microstates like Malta and San Marino) and northern Europe, Juries are unpolitically and just do their Job, weather we agree or not. Only in South and especially East Europe there are a few Countries whose Juries cant respect the Rules of Eurovision unfortunately.