Estonia ESTONIA 2024 - 5miinust & Puuluup - (nendest) narkootikumidest ei tea me (küll) midagi

[ESC United Mod Team]

 

[ekzuu]

Strongest Eesti Laul in years... so many songs are complete and competitive which is usually not true, usually we have like songs where something is missing and are just boring... this year there is much more merit. But on the negative side the system is screwed up... I get they wanted to lower costs by having only one semi but the chance to qualify was too low and in the end there was no point... And then we have some random automatic qualifiers, when actually best songs are in semis... And then we bring this massive jury to semi just to have even less room for public decision, and to help select 3 songs... It's just kind of contradictory. The jury should select the songs and be in final then, not in semi, so final is half jury, half televote composition. Or like half of semi should have advanced to final, like 7 or 8 or even 10 songs... Feeling bad for good artists with great songs who did not make it mainly because of the system... Like Traffic, Inga, Cecilia etc. I hope ERR learns and will not repeat this system... They should now make system easier not complicate so nobody understands nothing and result is meh

 

[laululind]

Yeah, I think they should have had 12 songs in the final again, like in some previous years. 5 AQs and 7 qualifiers from the semi makes sense and keeps the final reasonably short. Would have given more semi songs a chance to make it. And how much does adding two more songs to the final cost anyway? I can understand scrapping the second semi probably saved them a pretty penny, but surely squeezing another two songs in the final wouldn't make much of a difference. Here's hoping they get the funds to go back to 2 semis next year. I wouldn't mind them going back to studio shows for the semis if need be. Having cool live concerts is neat and all, but if they need to keep cutting back on everything, it might be a good way to cut costs and still keep the format that works best. I know Killandi said they can't do them in the ETV studios any more, but perhaps somewhere else would be an option. Oh well, let's see how EL 2024 plays out first I guess!

 

[eerik]

Let's not bring "Leto Svet" into the conversation if you do not understand it or the context around it.

Leto Svet was the culmination of Estonia's frustration with Eurovision Song Contest and our own pre-selection Eurolaul in the mid-2000s.

Main factors that lead to "Leto Svet":

• Estonia's poor performance at the Eurovision Song Contest itself. We went from constantly being in the top10 (and winning) to being stuck in the semis for years, with our results getting worse and worse each time. "Eighties Coming Back" finishing 21st in 2003 was a pivotal moment, forcing us to the semifinal in 2004. Vaiko Eplik, the frontman of Ruffus/Claire's Birthday, was personally labeled as "the guy who fucked up Eurovision". He was verbally and physically abused by idiots for years, even had to hire a bodyguard. That's how seriously/passionately some people in Estonia took Eurovision. It is kind of a miracle that Eplik managed to recover from this, having his most creative and successful years after all that.
• ESC rapidly expanding to more countries. Our years of poor results concided with a lot of new countries debuting at the contest. Those countries were mostly from Balkans and Caucasus, regions we don't really care about that much. This mean't there was even bigger competition for qualifying to the final, and there were a lot more songs that we did not like. Furthermore, these were also the years when countries from said regions did well. We gave 0 points to the winning entries of Turkey in 2003, Greece in 2005, and Serbia in 2007. Before that, the average points we had given to the winning entries was 9.7. With the exception of 4 points to Israel in 1998, the winning entry had always received at least 8 from us.
• Eurolaul being stagnant yet flip-floppy. "Eighties Coming Back" in 2003 was hated not only because of it's poor result at the Eurovision, but also because it was selected by international jury over a huge public favourite -- "Club Kung Fu" by Vanilla Ninja, which was dead last in the jury ranking. Backlash from all this made Eurolaul finally switch to televoting, however, after 2 years of televoting winners failing, they switched back to international jury, same story, rinse and repeat. So, in the final years of Eurolaul, Juhan Paadam, the our head of delegation and producer of Eurolaul, started toying around with the pre-selection process. There was a year when only invited songwriters could take part, eventhough the invitees were mostly people who had participated in Eurolaul for over a decade and would have done it anyway. For 2008, I believe it was 5 open spots + 5 invited songwriters. Priit Pajusaar, the man behind "Kaelakee hääl" in 1994 and "Diamond of Night" in 1999, was one of the invited songwriters who got a free pass to the final. He, sharing the frustrations of many other Estonians, gave us "Leto Svet".

"Leto Svet" was never a genuine attempt to be funny or to appeal to anybody in Europe. It was a "fuck you" to Eurovision and Eurolaul after years of bad results and frustration that came along with it. And it worked, the following year we got rid of Juhan Paadam and Eurolaul, replaced them with Heidy Purga and Eesti Laul, and we have done relatively well ever since. We have had as many top10 finishes as we have had non-qualifications in the Eesti Laul era. Our friends and favourites have also done well in the competition during that time. Our best buddies Finland and Sweden being the top2 and us being 8th last year was like a perfect outcome.

None of the Eesti Laul entries since 2009 share anything in common with "Leto Svet", nor is there a reason that there should be another one.

 

[laululind]

I do recall many local Leto Svet fans thinking we'd actually do well. "Eurovision is full of stupid songs so surely our stupid song will work too!" But alas, not every joke entry has what it takes. Leto Svet veered too far into the dumb territory and, worst of all, wasn't particularly catchy or appealing. But I don't think people comparing "nendest.." to Leto Svet are thinking that hard about the meaning or message or anything that deep. Just "song from Estonia that sounds kind of silly/jokey (and I don't much like it/think it will flop)". I guess, considering how few songs of that nature we've sent, it's the closest available comparison. But Leto Svet could only dream of the kind of fanbase "nendest.." already has outside of Estonia. Not that having some fans will always translate into instant Eurovision success, obviously.. but it does show there's some outside appeal and it's not just a local thing nobody but us gets. Whether that appeal would be big enough to get good results in May is anyone's guess tho' & depends on many different factors. February will tell if we get to find out or not.

Personally, Leto Svet is the worst entry we've ever sent, but "nendest.." would probably be in my top 10 if we pick it. So there has to be some difference!

 

[shameless]

Gosh I hated the win of Leto Svet so much, especially because both 365 Days by Birgit and Ice Cold Story from Iris where so good and just missed out in the superfinal. It was really frustrating and I've always wondered how they would've fared.

 

[EscGeek]

Leto Svet is my all time favorite estonian entry and uness you send Ollie that's not gonna change anytime soon

 

[laululind]

Well, if only Europe had another few million people with the same opinion, Leto Svet might have actually done well! At least they can be happy they have a few dedicated fans out there. Tho' I'm kind of thankful our sour grapes anthem flopped in the end. We might never have gotten EL otherwise, and spent the next few years sending silly joke songs, trying to replicate our success. I'd much rather have Rändajad than Leto Svet vol. 2 and 3.

In other news, 5Miinust is running away with it in the EL odds. 52% for them currently, with Ollie at 31% and the rest trailing behind with 6% and less. Interesting, considering the performance was disappointing for many people. Would have figured Ollie might gain ground after that, but seems not to be the case. But odds have been wrong before too, so we'll have to wait and see. If I were them, I'd think about how to clean up the staging a little for the EL final. Even if our televoters don't mind the messy staging, the juries certainly might. And while it's difficult for them to eliminate a televote favorite, it's certainly not impossible. There's a lot of safe jury bait in the final. Depends on what kind of jury members we get I suppose.. sometimes they like weird stuff too! But certainly not always.

 

[goncalovieira]

I miss the old Eesti Laul (up to 2018)...

 

[randajad]

I miss the old Eesti Laul (up to 2018)...

Peaked in 2016

 

[Bsimmons]

Only possibly strong part of "Nendest ..." is a catchy dance routine that could become a thing itself. Everything else falls to "not understood/not cared" category for Europe.

 

[laululind]

What's there to really understand tho'. The lyrics I suppose, but is that the biggest draw? I'd say it's the clap-along melody and interesting instruments that's the main selling point, plus the dance. Those seem pretty universal, but I guess it really could go any which way. I could see them being top 3 in semi televotes, a la Moldova 2022, or barely qualifying, or not qualifying at all. Much would depend on other songs and countries in our semi and if we got the staging just right. From current feedback I'd say there's a chance they could do well, but definitely no guarantees. Also the juries in the final would probably dash our hopes for any high places, but oh well. Let's see what happens in EL first I guess. I'd be perfectly fine with Ollie winning too, and he'd have a decent chance to do OK come May. Daniel would be a disappointingly boring choice compared to 5Miinust or Ollie, but wouldn't be our worst entry ever I suppose.

I was browsing some old EL posts and there was complaining about EL getting worse and going downhill as early as 2013. But I guess it got better again later. Some years were definitely stronger than others tho' and there were some pretty dud editions back in the earlier days too. I guess, as years pass, people remember the highlights and forget the filler and everything seems better in hindsight. Compared to the early Rahula era tho', the olden days were definitely masterpieces.

 

[henhu]

Tbh odds have been usually spot-on, especially in recent years:
2015: winner was 1st in odds
2016: winner was 1st in odds
2017: winner was 2nd it odds, but it was still obvious winner based on social media reactions (by Estonians)
2018: winner was 1st in odds
2019: winner was 1st in odds
2020: winner was 2nd it odds, but it was still obvious winner based on social media reactions (by Estonians)
2021: winner was 1st in odds
2022: winner was 1st in odds
2023: winner was 1st in odds

 

[BernadetteCydonia]

Right, I don't think "(nendest) narkootikumidest ei tea me (küll) midagi" is doomed JUST because of the performance. Yes, it was a little disjointed in parts because it felt like the camera didn't know where to focus at times, and there needs to be some 'dancing and singing at the same time' training so that it doesn't feel forced when the guys sing their parts in the chorus after stopping their dancing. But people find ways to attack clear winner songs all the time by pointing out the most minute of flaws, so I'm not too phased. Rather would have that instead of staging a crazy good folk song with no energy whatsoever (looking at you "Nevera (Lei lei)"...).

Ollie does seem like a valid opponent in a superfinal, too. I just don't like it when artists are allowed to get away by sending something not as great as their previous NF entries that were actually likeable. Just my personal gripe against the song, not Ollie himself ^^

Therefore:

GO NENDEST NARKOOTIKUMIDEST EI TEA MA KÜLL MIDAGI

 

[henhu]

I am sure they beat someone like Peter Põder in jury voting to secure the superfinal place... But I still fear that Ollie will be Uku 2 where people vote out of pity regardless the song.

 

[BernadetteCydonia]

well then what were you doing when Ollie wanted your votes back then, Estonians!!

 

[BorisBubbles]

lol people FURREAKING out because of 5Miinust's staging. It doesn"t matter, GET A JOB FREAKS.

besides, the staging at eurovision will be different anyway. The stage during the SF was so tiny it barely fits six people.

So anyway, i am not worried at all about 5Miinust and Puuluup at all. If they're in the superfinal and it's a three-way again, they win.

Ollie is... boring to me but strictly speaking not a bad choice for the Estonians since he too will earn them a spot in the finale. Daniel Levi might do the same. But Puuluup and 5Miinust are the only contender that would actually excite me. They better make it work.

 

[Bsimmons]

What's there to really understand tho'.

Underlying humour of drug use, traditional instruments used (probably more value for Estonian voters). Even some sentences like "Pardikesed väikesed, kuid moonid on nii pikad" is untranslatable and full meaning is understood only by native Estonians.

 

[laululind]

I'm not sure one previous participation has quite gathered Ollie Uku levels of pity-votes just yet. But there are definitely some who might throw some votes his way because they think he should have won last year. Also people who like "nendest..", but think Ollie is a better fit for Eurovision. And many people just like his song this year too. Personally I don't even know which of his entries I prefer, they're about on par for me! So I wouldn't really be disappointed that he won this year and not last. But it would also be cool to see 5Miinust do their thing in Malmö. I guess it's the second year in a row where I like both frontrunners! Right now, going by odds and such, it seems 5Miinust might have the edge.. but it's certainly not a done deal like EL 2018 or 2015.

Wonder when we get the final running order! Not that it makes a huge difference in a 10 song final I guess. Personally, I'd do something like this..

Brother Apollo "Bad Boy"
Nele-Liis Vaiksoo "Käte ümber jää"
Peter Põder "Korra veel"
Anet Vaikmaa "Serotoniin"
Daniel Levi "Over The Moon"
Ewert and The Two Dragons "Hold Me Now"
Carlos Ukareda "Never Growing Up"
Ollie "My Friend"
Uudo Sepp, Sarah Murray "Still Love"
5miinust ja Puuluup "(nendest) narkootikumidest ei tea me (küll) midagi"

But considering how weird some EL running orders have been, I'm fully expecting all the uptempoes to be bunched together and the show to end with the slowest possible ballad, probably Nele Liis.

 

[eerik]

Peaked in 2016

Real Eesti Laul was 2009 - 2015 when it was lead by Heidy Purga.

Mart Normet (2016-18) fucked up instantly by letting the wrong Pootsmann song through the preselection, which then ended in our worst Eurovision result ever. I know, I know, not exactly his fault, but I will never forgive it. He also turned Eesti Laul into an anti-thesis of what it started as, by adding random foreigners to the jury and putting way much emphasis on the Eurovision itself.

Skipped Tomi Rahula era (2019-23) complately, but hated his ideas and changes.

Already not a fan of the current era. The 5 prequalified finalists might be even worse than anything Rahula did. Actually, I should say that I am not complately against the idea of having prequalified finalists, but the way they did it is terrible. Had they accepted demo versions of songs as submissions, like in Purga and Normet days, that would have been fine. It could have been seen as rewarding those who had put in more work and effort to their submission. Had they given invitations/free passes to certain songwriters (without having the actual songs), like in the last years of Paadam's Eurolaul, even that would have been fine. But knowing that the same jury that chose the other 15 semifinalists, based on the final versions of the songs, already deemed 5 to be better than the rest, is just plain stupid. Plus, I dislike 4 out of the 5.

 

[laululind]

Well, I've some faint hope they might go back to two semis in the future, if funds allow. Doesn't seem like the automatic qualifiers thing was so much something they really wanted to do as it was something they came up with as a compromise to still keep 20 songs while only having one semi. Other alternatives would have been one massive semi with all the songs, like Latvia I guess.. but that kind of renders the semi pretty pointless. Or no semis at all and a huge final with 20 songs. Or cut down the songs to 15 or 10.. but looking at what the jury considered top 5, I'm concerned we'd lose all the interesting stuff if they did that and be stuck with 10 blandest tracks. So if the choice is less songs, or still 20 songs but automatic qualifiers, I guess I'd take the latter. At least this way, the interesting songs still get a chance to be heard & make the final. But hopefully they'll find a way to go back to the tried and tested 2 semi format next year, especially if the feedback/results for the AQ system is poor.

They were also going to play some songs that didn't make top 20 in the radio and everything.. but I don't listen to much radio so I've no idea if they have or not.