Belgium BELGIUM 2025 - Red Sebastian - Strobe Lights

[ESC United Mod Team]

 

[Sammy]

I didn‘t find the vocals that bad and televoting often doesn‘t care about that either (look at Estonia this year, and there are numrous examples in the past).

 

[JonasS]

His tone and character of voice is just a very, let's say, acquired taste for the general public I'd wager. Personally, I simply find it unpleasant to listen to, same for the others at our watch party. Probably you either love it or you really don't.

 

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Estonian people blaming us for bad vocals really

I am still pissed of and will leave the Contest for quite a while for what it is. I would not be surprised if VRT withdraws after yesterdays robbery. The dissapointment is huge.

You all got that to blame on you.

What robbery are you talking about? People has voted, full stop. I gave this song a 2 in the poll in march because I didn't like it and I still don't. I'm not surprised about the result either, tbh. Belgium had way better songs and performances in the past.

 

[RainyWoods]

I think this had potential based on the song alone as well and the staging only cemented my belief.

As for the idea that staging can't save a poor song, I disagree.
Voila there we have ireland 2024, it not only Q'ed but even made it to 6th in the gf with a song weaker than strobe lights imho.

I thought of Ireland 2024 actually when writing my previous post. That was indeed a polarising entry as well. The difference though is that it was wholly unique and something quite unheard of for the contest. A bunch of us saw the potential in it from the beginning (not that people didn't see it in Strobe Lights too of course,) and then the staging at ESC was outstanding, so the entry stood out as the clear alternative voters choice. How it was presented being so spot on was what lifted it so high, yes, but I feel it was also a pretty good song for its genre to begin with. I thought Doomsday Blue could pass the moment it was selected, way before seeing the staging overhaul. Meanwhile I only started to believe Strobe Lights could make the final during rehearsal week, after seeing it had good staging. I started to feel the same way about Slovenia even Both songs almost the entire season I thought would miss because they weren't good enough and then I wrongly assumed staging would turn their chances around.

Belgium's staging was really slick, very well thought out but it didn't have anywhere near the same overall edge to it as an entry as say things like Doomsday Blue or Hatrið mun sigra (loud, polarising entries that worked out), and frankly wasn't enticing enough. The likeability factor was what was missing in my opinion. If juries still voted in the semis, they would have probably quite easily helped see the entry through. Its draw really didn't help matters either. The semi was full of young guys doing loud, screamy entries, and three of them missed. They ate each others support.

 

[marty]

That was one of the most impressive stagings imo, still it did not help. After the very bad performance of Tommy Cash I thought Estonia would be the surprise NQ, I did not expect Belgium to nq.

 

[Mainshow]

I know what you mean, I actually didn't get that off Belgium but I got it off Cyprus. I also got it off Sweden 2018.
Theo Evan might be a lovely person so I'm not making assumptions about his character, I just found that as a performance it came across as a bit cocky for very little substance.

I didn't really feel that way, either but after my dad made that comment (he's more like a casual viewer and I know that I'm generalising it but I can understand why some people at home might have felt that way), I think he was kinda right? - I mean, Red Sebastian had clones of himself on stage, he was doing that strange pose on the floor interacting with himself (my dad was like "is he going to f*ck himself or what)... Theo Evan was a lot of flexing, doing poses with his "gym bros" whilst doing some gymnastics as well... and both songs were very loud, noisy and chaotic at parts, very EDM-driven...

Yesterday, I just think that some "ordinary folks"/the general public simply favoured the more gentle stagings, the more authentic sounds (all local languages qualified), the warm colours etc.
It wasn't meant to be... it doesn't mean that Belgium (or Cyprus) wouldn't have a shot at qualifying next year in another semi with the same staging concept... sometimes it's just what it is.. but personally, I think it's understandable that none of them made it last night.

 

[Mainshow]

Estonian people blaming us for bad vocals really

I am still pissed of and will leave the Contest for quite a while for what it is. I would not be surprised if VRT withdraws after yesterdays robbery. The dissapointment is huge.

You all got that to blame on you.

I know you're highly disappointed by the results and you have every right to feel like that but "withdrawing" and "robbery"?
The song wasn't accessible to anyone who isn't an EDM-loving gay party person or hardcore ESC-fan. It got ZERO general public appeal. It was a risk which could have paid off but honestly, Red Sebastian sounded flat - especially in the verses... if you want to create a moment with a very sleek, partly agressive and dark atmosphere, the vocals have to be on point.
Estonia, however, was meant to be a fun entry and Tommy Cash brought a fun atmosphere on stage - people who liked it, didn't vote for it because it was Estonia (they got "robbed" several times in ESC history, even huge fan favourites failed), they didn't vote for it because of the vocals - it was simply pure fun.
I don't think Estonia is a good entry - I don't really like the act but it was very catchy, very memorable, verry entertaing and all the ordinary folk bumped to it (e.g. my parents and my neighbours) - Estonia would have made it yesterday - with or without Belgium - he didn't take anything away from anyone.

 

[Deluxenite]

I know you're highly disappointed by the results and you have every right to feel like that but "withdrawing" and "robbery"?
The song wasn't accessible to anyone who isn't an EDM-loving gay party person or hardcore ESC-fan. It got ZERO general public appeal. It was a risk which could have paid off but honestly, Red Sebastian sounded flat - especially in the verses... if you want to create a moment with a very sleek, partly agressive and dark atmosphere, the vocals have to be on point.
Estonia, however, was meant to be a fun entry and Tommy Cash brought a fun atmosphere on stage - people who liked it, didn't vote for it because it was Estonia (they got "robbed" several times in ESC history, even huge fan favourites failed), they didn't vote for it because of the vocals - it was simply pure fun.
I don't think Estonia is a good entry - I don't really like the act but it was very catchy, very memorable, verry entertaing and all the ordinary folk bumped to it (e.g. my parents and my neighbours) - Estonia would have made it yesterday - with or without Belgium - he didn't take anything away from anyone.

My point was not personally on Estonia but on people saying he didn't qualify because of bad vocals, while at least three other countries with bad vocals did qualify. And we all know the vocals aren't the problem, but the problem is countries voting for their neighbour countries.

Second, I don't think the eurovision community realises what an impact this non-qualification might have. The NQ is being welcomed in Flemish Press and apparently as well within the Belgian eurovisiondelegation with Utter disbelief, especially seeing which other countries did qualify.

So yes in a couple of weeks there will appear articles questioning whether or not we should continue participating in eurovision or not giving the current economic situation of our country. VRT is a mediagroup that is payed through tax funding of the Flemish Government. We currently have a huge national debt, were other unpopular measures are taken to reduce that debt. Eurovision is payed for by taxes of the Belgian people. Questions will be raised whether we should participate in further editions or not giving we won't win it anyway and if the tax money can't better be spend elsewhere.

I think we can definitly scrap Eurosong 2027 from the list, giving the viewingnumbers of this edition were also not good. If we still participate it will be through internal selection but i wouldn't be surprised if we take a break for a couple of years. Of course that is worst case scenario but i don't rule it out.

 

[SpiritofKeiino]

I know you're highly disappointed by the results and you have every right to feel like that but "withdrawing" and "robbery"?
The song wasn't accessible to anyone who isn't an EDM-loving gay party person or hardcore ESC-fan. It got ZERO general public appeal. It was a risk which could have paid off but honestly, Red Sebastian sounded flat - especially in the verses... if you want to create a moment with a very sleek, partly agressive and dark atmosphere, the vocals have to be on point.
Estonia, however, was meant to be a fun entry and Tommy Cash brought a fun atmosphere on stage - people who liked it, didn't vote for it because it was Estonia (they got "robbed" several times in ESC history, even huge fan favourites failed), they didn't vote for it because of the vocals - it was simply pure fun.
I don't think Estonia is a good entry - I don't really like the act but it was very catchy, very memorable, verry entertaing and all the ordinary folk bumped to it (e.g. my parents and my neighbours) - Estonia would have made it yesterday - with or without Belgium - he didn't take anything away from anyone.

My boyfriend loved it, but he's a hardcore EDM fan and used to go to raves.

 

[aef]

That was one of the most impressive stagings imo, still it did not help. After the very bad performance of Tommy Cash I thought Estonia would be the surprise NQ, I did not expect Belgium to nq.

I hate the song but why do you think his performance was bad? I don’t find it funny either but they did what they wanted to do… and left an impact. It was no trainwreck…

 

[marty]

I hate the song but why do you think his performance was bad? I don’t find it funny either but they did what they wanted to do… and left an impact. It was no trainwreck…

In my ears Tommy Cash sounded miserable. I am not a fan of Red Sebastian but he sang ok and the song was modern at least.

 

[Mainshow]

My point was not personally on Estonia but on people saying he didn't qualify because of bad vocals, while at least three other countries with bad vocals did qualify.

I see where you're coming from.
Personally, I think that Belgium didn't qualify for some reasons (I have mentioned before) - when it comes to the vocals, though.. there are entries in which vocals are more important than for another, e.g. I don't expect a fun song like Estonia to deliver great vocals - but if a song consists of vocal gymnastics and many long/high-pitched notes, head voice (etc.), they should be top-notch (especially when the instrumental is quiet, e.g. in the verses of Belgium).

The flat vocals, mediocre vocals made a very inaccessible and loud entry even less accessible - especially since it's been accompanied by some "agressive" colour-scheme, lighting and aggressive, monotonous beat.

Artists which might have sung worse than Red Sebastion could have qualified due to creating a fun or warm atmosphere on stage or simply, having a more memorable, catchy hook (which somehow make "very good vocals" in vain).

And we all know the vocals aren't the problem, but the problem is countries voting for their neighbour countries.

And here I have to strongly disagree with you. I don't "know that".
Slovenia, Croatia didn't qualify even though they potentially got "neighbours" like Albania, Switzerland, Italy voting in the semi.
We Central Europeans always complain about the bloc voting (which somehow exists, no doubt) but then we see these blocs crumble very often.
Yes, all Nordic entries went through but maybe it's just because all three songs were fun, catchy and memorable?
And let us not pretend that the Nordic bloc always comes into fruition.
Iceland didn't qualify in 2024, 2023; Denmark can't even remember what a Grand Final might look like for some time now and I can still remember the "robbed" fails when the Nordics complained about "bloc voting and so on", when songs like "Haba Haba" didn't make it.
The last time, we saw ALL Nordic countries in the GF was back in 2014. That's more than 10 years ago and we still don't know if can qualify tomorrow.

We've seen countries with huge diasporas fail in televoting, e.g. didn't qualify in 2024, didn't qualify in 2024.

Why did - another "country with no huge neighbour support" qualify? - They used to fail for many consecutive years in the 00's.

Believe me, Europe thinks of NL and BE somehow "the same way" - I fail to see why we should prefer one of these countries more (and it's even questionable if it translate into ESC votes)

Second, I don't think the eurovision community realises what an impact this non-qualification might have. The NQ is being welcomed in Flemish Press and apparently as well within the Belgian eurovisiondelegation with Utter disbelief, especially seeing which other countries did qualify.

So yes in a couple of weeks there will appear articles questioning whether or not we should continue participating in eurovision or not giving the current economic situation of our country. VRT is a mediagroup that is payed through tax funding of the Flemish Government. We currently have a huge national debt, were other unpopular measures are taken to reduce that debt. Eurovision is payed for by taxes of the Belgian people. Questions will be raised whether we should participate in further editions or not giving we won't win it anyway and if the tax money can't better be spend elsewhere.

I think we can definitly scrap Eurosong 2027 from the list, giving the viewingnumbers of this edition were also not good. If we still participate it will be through internal selection but i wouldn't be surprised if we take a break for a couple of years. Of course that is worst case scenario but i don't rule it out.

I read it with a heavy heart. I don't want to lose another country - especially Belgium - But I think it's quite dramatic to project it on Red Sebastian's "non-qualification".
Let us not forget that you ended up being TOP 10 two years ago (2023). That's not even a long time ago.

The Belgian delegation can't expect Europe to vote for Belgium because "two or three other countries didn't deserve to qualify" (according to whom?? The Belgian delegation and some loud fans from Western/Central Europe?)

I hope Europe's broadcasters will become more stable, financially again but I think that the Belgian delegation simply has to digest the "shock non-qualification" now.

 

[nudiecrudi]

We are discussing in vain about this DNQ.
I think there isn't any objective reason why didn't qualify. The staging was more or less as good or as bad as many others qualified. Vocals were acceptable.
Why didn't qualify?
Simply the audience didn't like the song.
Maybe this genre isn't appealing to the most.

 

[aef]

In my ears Tommy Cash sounded miserable. I am not a fan of Red Sebastian but he sang ok and the song was modern at least.

Well okay it’s a fact that did not have any vocals… it’s all about the show and entertainment in that case.

 

[SpiritofKeiino]

We are discussing in vain about this DNQ.
I think there isn't any objective reason why didn't qualify. The staging was more or less as good or as bad as many others qualified. Vocals were acceptable.
Why didn't qualify?
Simply the audience didn't like the song.
Maybe this genre isn't appealing to the most.

It's always difficult when we assess this post the NQ, hindsight bias is almost unavoidable.

I said while watching it that it was a good performance and would qualify. I had criticised it on this forum before saying it was a bit charmless and tryhard, but last night I really did feel it had upped its game, and would qualify.

So I'm really stuck on why this NQd. I can't point to anything. As you say, maybe people just didn't like the song.

The vocals were fine I thought, certainly there were qualifiers with worse vocals.

 

[Mainshow]

^^ I would also argue that people probably didn't like his voice that much?

I think I've read it here on this forum.. someone said that Simon Cowell would be probably saying "screeching isn't singing".

I think that Red Sebastian sang it nicely/decently? but he sounded very flat (and partly gay-ish) in the verses and he was screeching in the chorus (the high-pitch notes were almost unbearable to me). If most viewers share that experience, it doesn't come as a surprise anymore... I really do think it was simply an entry for the EDM-loving-hardcore fanbase and we fans got carried away because of Belgians pushing their entry within the bubble, the high betting odds and we have a thing for dark, atmospheric, artsy-fartsy EDM-driven stuff... but here, the backage wasn't there to
a) either make hardcore ESC fans vote for it [like @hijirio said, most ESC fans/YouTuber/vloggers had it somewhere in their Top 10 or mid-table - but it wasn't really #1 or #2 - you know - the songs you would be voting for)
b) or make it accessible for your aunts, uncles, parents, neighbours who occassionally throw a vote or two in ESC as well.

I don't support any war/sympathy/diaspora/bloc voting - saying; since we have seen all countries fail before (and Ukraine would have flopped in 2012 as well if it hadn't been saved by the juries).

I really think that Belgium was quite unlucky that people didn't like it and the hardcore community of ESC didn't pick up their phones either.

 

[Jupiter]

And we all know the vocals aren't the problem, but the problem is countries voting for their neighbour countries.

The exact televote numbers for this semi will be so interesting. I would not be shocked if San Marino or Portugal scrapped in at 10th, with a low enough point advantage over 11th that taking out Italy or any diaspora country for Portugal would already drop them out of the qualifiers. And that will be really harsh on whoever came 11th (which I'd currently suspect was likely Belgium).

What I think bugs me so hard about this is that Belgium clearly put in so much effort. They really seemed to care for this, and came up with great ideas and all. After already having a solid NF. And than it lands behind songs/performances that scream "We really did not care that much". It's only understandable that Belgium is... unhappy. And truely shocked. I hope Belgium stays around, especially because I like so many of the belgian entries, but I absolutely get that the whole topic is coming up. For now though, I'm glad that it seems that Belgium is angry/irritated with the rest of europe, and not leveling hate at Red Sebastian

 

[hijirio]

Now that they NQ’d we are digging for far-stretched details as to why they didn’t make it.
There was nothing wrong with the performance or the song.

People vote either for their absolute favorite number or for their own home country/neighbor, there was no room left for Belgium in the equation.

Everyone that I know that watched the show last night loved Belgium, but no one (including me) voted for it. The chemistry just didn’t click on the spot.

Voting behavior is too complicated to explain.

 

[Harry]

Belgian fans on TikTok are saying their commentators alluded to “less funding” for the contest next year due to NQing and they even seemed angry… not sure how much weight they’d have in any decision like that but it’s tea!

 

[Deluxenite]

Belgian fans on TikTok are saying their commentators alluded to “less funding” for the contest next year due to NQing and they even seemed angry… not sure how much weight they’d have in any decision like that but it’s tea!

The Union of VRT also did another action like last year speaking up for Palestine before the Contest. EBU is not happy about it.

They say they will do it for the final again, but nobody in Belgium is now gonna watch the final anyway.