Thinking of Slavic/Eastern Eurovision countries... "How to Win?"

[Loindici]

Not thinking of this as an issue to be urgently advocated, but it just kept me wondering.

It seems much harder for Eastern Eurovision countries, in general, to succeed or be considered a big competitor, post-2008.

Okay, maybe the can reach the top 10, and that's awesome. But reaching top 3 is far harder for them.

This is sans of Ukraine and Israel, who has done relatively good and even earned the Big Mic, or the Voldemort of Eurovision, because they will never fail by default.

Aside of political reasons, and the scales of these countries, to have a goal of winning Eurovision, what do you think:

1. The countries themselves should do with their selection/management?;
2. The things around the contest should apply/change (system, bookies, draw, EBU, etc.)?

I was probably so desperate of an underdog story, but it's just more about having these countries to be taken seriously.

 

[aeon]

I see no problem for Slavic/Eastern Eurovision countries. On the contrary, because most of them originate from break-up of Soviet Union or strongly allied countries, they have strong connections to each other and therefor all receive a greater diaspora and ethnic vote.
The reason many countries never won is that they did not have a song that stood out or that year another entry was even more popular and a little due to stupid jury votes. Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Serbia, Russia all won in the last 20 years, Ukraine 3 times.

I predict little Moldova to win soon, really like what they bring to ESC year after year.

 

[Loindici]

The reason many countries never won is that they did not have a song that stood out or that year another entry was even more popular and a little due to stupid jury votes. Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Serbia, Russia all won in the last 20 years, Ukraine 3 times.

TBH, I'm not denying of the strong bond. It was the greatest strength these countries have, but also the thorn in the flesh which more or less caused the 2009 jury introduction.

Not only that we have more 'serious' entries and Western countries getting better generally, but also Eastern countries having it harder to reach the podium instead of having the field evened.

I mean, music-wise, I feel some Eastern countries had stepped up their entry's quality, sometimes better than the big players, but... rarely hyped, perhaps? Sometimes I wonder if it's the power of bookies or something...

Also yes, hope Moldova, Slovenia, or Czechia can win someday!

 

[aeon]

Bookies only study popularity on fan sites and other media releases, music downloads and trends, reaction videos etc. Of course some jurors will follow the popular bookies favourites to boast they are knowledgeable to have the winner or front-runner.

The ones with disadvantage are the big 5 because there is some resentment that they need not qualify and have it more difficult to grow a fan-base as they are not in semis as competitor.

 

[simori95]

Can you name examples of songs from Eastern countries that you think were a shoe-in for Top 3 but failed to land there for this reason?

I am afraid I can‘t really add any insight to this debate, and I am not saying you’re wrong, I am just curious which songs you think this applies to, and to then think about it a bit more.

 

[gigi_copp3]

With now being a serious candidate to win ESC 2024, I have a few questions:
1) Can Croatia afford Eurovision hosting? I think Zagreb could be a cool host city, big enough (it has double the inhabitants of Malmo, for instance), but maybe HRT has not enough money to carry a big machine like ESC (seeing how many technical problems there were in Dora);
2) Will a Croatian win motivate other balkan/eastern countries to return and compete seriously? I mean, maybe could come back to ESC

 

[empo21]

Doesn't EBU help the host financially as well? I feel like I remember something like that.

I don't see how a Croatian win inspires to return as there isn't much in common or any relation between the two countries.

Bosnia has to clear its debt. Romania will definitely return as early as next year.

return anytime if they can afford it/have sponsors or artists who can afford it. Also, if there's enough interest viewership-wise.

 

[ag89]

Doesn't EBU help the host financially as well? I feel like I remember something like that.

I don't see how a Croatian win inspires to return as there isn't much in common or any relation between the two countries.

Bosnia has to clear its debt. Romania will definitely return as early as next year.

return anytime if they can afford it/have sponsors or artists who can afford it. Also, if there's enough interest viewership-wise.

On a positive note, a few days ago BHRT received 4.5 million KM from the state (around 2.7 million EUR) and a first step toward long-term solution for solving this big issue. So, we may see Bosnia back soon. This has been the largest contribution to the national broadcaster from the state in many years so let's see.

 

[ESC94]

On a positive note, a few days ago BHRT received 4.5 million KM from the state (around 2.7 million EUR) and a first step toward long-term solution for solving this big issue. So, we may see Bosnia back soon. This has been the largest contribution to the national broadcaster from the state in many years so let's see.

What´s your definition of "soon" in this case??

 

[gigi_copp3]

return anytime if they can afford it/have sponsors or artists who can afford it. Also, if there's enough interest viewership-wise.

I think moving to Croatia could be more affordable for them, since it's closer than the various Liverpool or Malmo. In fact, I think Montenegro competed in Turin because it was relatively closer to them

 

[Paco Roca]

Problems preventing Balkan/Slavic countries from winning:

• They have a culture more or less in common (with the necessary exceptions that distinguish them from each other) and are partially allies (although relations are not idyllic between some nations) but they are also proud peoples and very competitive with each other. This may answer the question "Why do we see a Balkan/Slavic country finishing in the Top 10 but not winning?". What's missing is that little extra support from their bloc.
• Participating in the ESC involves investing money to participate. Victory would imply enormous additional spending that could derail other priorities. Slavic/Balkan countries could be helped by sponsors but their small music markets and consequently their unattractiveness make it difficult to find them. Some of the spending could be recovered through tourism but are we sure that these nations could handle the new global ESC public? These considerations can be a brake.
• Slavic/Balkan songs, which I respect a lot, have some elements that make them niche and not for mainstream. Strong traditional component that makes the product too Slavic/too Balkan, beautiful voices but too warbling and plaintive (I hope I haven't offended - I don't know how else to define them), the women have too aggressive and excessive looks, languages respectable and full of history and value but not very musical, not very vocality.
• Connecting to the end of the previous point, you often choose to sing in English but if you are not like Sweden which knows how to be more universal with its Pop you will tend to fail and be considered a typical average product in English.

Let's take the case of the Baltic countries, equally small and with not powerful markets, these are different. I see them as more musically versatile. They know how to bring their tradition to the stage but also completely different musical products. For me, unless a Slavic/Balkan country wins, the Baltic countries will win again. Probably only Moldova and perhaps Romania can reverse the trend.

 

[ag89]

What´s your definition of "soon" in this case??

Not 12 years from now.

No, I think, with current changes in Bosnia (and more focus on the issues BHRT is dealing with) I think we can get a long-term solution that might bring Bosnia back in the next 2-3 years max.

 

[LakZaNokte]

With now being a serious candidate to win ESC 2024, I have a few questions:
1) Can Croatia afford Eurovision hosting? I think Zagreb could be a cool host city, big enough (it has double the inhabitants of Malmo, for instance), but maybe HRT has not enough money to carry a big machine like ESC (seeing how many technical problems there were in Dora);
2) Will a Croatian win motivate other balkan/eastern countries to return and compete seriously? I mean, maybe could come back to ESC

Well, we’re not THAT poor

Besides, HRT drains state budget anyway, so if needed, funds can be bigger.

 

[Loindici]

Can you name examples of songs from Eastern countries that you think were a shoe-in for Top 3 but failed to land there for this reason?

I am afraid I can‘t really add any insight to this debate, and I am not saying you’re wrong, I am just curious which songs you think this applies to, and to then think about it a bit more.

This will be such a late, late reply, but I'll name some.

I was really thinking of Serbia 2022. That was really when a song fits the performer like a glove, has an intriguing composition IMO, and the act itself is literally performance art. I wish the juries appreciate it more, and the bubble had more hype around her, because it was really a missed opportunity to bring a winner with a different perspective on creating music.

I also wish Czechia 2018 was appreciated by juries more. It was something the juries usually wanted: a good radio-contemporary pop. Okay, maybe talking about vocals he wasn't the best that night, but if this song were on Sweden or Denmark's hands maybe it'd be much more appreciated.

 

[SpiritofKeiino]

It's not that Balkan entries are bad. We've seen some really high quality entries from that region since 2008. I think maybe their style of entry (at times ethnic flavours, avant garde) doesn't always click with the juries, compared with countries that send more 'pop' songs? I haven't looked at the data to prove this, just my inkling based on thinking about it quickly.

 

[HayashiM]

This will be such a late, late reply, but I'll name some.

I was really thinking of Serbia 2022. That was really when a song fits the performer like a glove, has an intriguing composition IMO, and the act itself is literally performance art. I wish the juries appreciate it more, and the bubble had more hype around her, because it was really a missed opportunity to bring a winner with a different perspective on creating music.

I also wish Czechia 2018 was appreciated by juries more. It was something the juries usually wanted: a good radio-contemporary pop. Okay, maybe talking about vocals he wasn't the best that night, but if this song were on Sweden or Denmark's hands maybe it'd be much more appreciated.

Yeah. If Mikolas had the exact same package with "Sweden" on it, I think he would have cracked the top 3 - he was even the odds favourite for the win at one point.
(This is not meant as hate on Sweden, I am just supporting your argument.)

 

[WhoKnows]

Multiple factors imo. These are general trends. There are obviously exceptions and overlaps. The issue itself is pretty deep though.

• Western culture has generally been the dominant culture. Due to decades of exposure to and dominance by the Western cultures, more people get it and relate to it. French, Spanish, Italian music is consumed everywhere, and has been for a while, so it's easier to relate to it and "get it," even if it's something very ethno-centric. On the other hand, Slavic and Balkan cultures occupy a more niche area that's less accessible to those outside their bubble.
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• At the same time, because most of Eastern countries' cultures are less known to the outside world, these countries feel compelled to present just that with their entries. They want their culture to be known, heard, appreciated, etc. So they send songs that represent them, which then the outside world doesn't always get.
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• When Eastern countries do send more mainstream product, they get criticized for not showcasing their culture. See Azerbaijan for example. Yet Sweden can send a mainstream pop song every year, and nobody bats an eye.
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• Western countries have more developed music industries, more resources, and professionals who can produce better quality product. Even if talent is there in some of these eastern countries, because there's less access and less opportunities for these talents to develop and flourish, it often times ends up dying.
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• There's some self loathing or insecurity with the Eastern countries, at least with their juries. Because they all aspire to be like the "West," they tend to see things from the West as better than their own thing. See for example the jury votes for Ukraine 2021. It had some support from the Western juries but nearly ignored by the Eastern juries.