EBU Reference Group / Executive Supervisor

[Charly]

Following the most polarised, chaotic and controversial contest we had in decades.

I feel we have made a complete u turn from the contest last year in Liverpool and the overall mood is dampened not only by the disqualification given to Netherlands but constant issues that has been arising.

Some such as EBU refusal to provide the Gra d Final live clip of Portugal as a complaint by RTP, the EU itself against the ban of EU flags, spectators being led out due to flags such as non-binary, a Dutch flag that contained the word Justice for Joost and the ignorance of the intimidation acts caused by a specific delegation to the likes of Ireland, Lithuania, Netherlands and UK so on.

The decision to disqualify Netherlands has topped it all for Martin Österdahls tenure as the Executive Supervisor.

I deem his position is no longer attainable that he must resign with immediate effect alongside the Reference Group decision makers.

What's your thoughts?

 

[ag89]

I don't think Martin actually made any of those decisions alone - we have to turn to members of the reference group. I am not trying to defend that guy in any way, but I don't see him as the main problem here.

Of course, they will not take into consideration comments and proposals made by fans - at the end, they are not represented there in any way.

They will have to reflect on so many issues that happened this year, it's even hard to list all of them.

I completely disagree with flag banning thing: what is really the point of banning EU flag or even Palestine flag? At the end, it's the country recognized by a huge number of other countries.

It's really silly they banned the EU flag, how is possible someone came up with that proposal?! In order to make ESC less political, they banned the flag and with that they made this even more political. It's insane.

Generally speaking, the rules what is political and not are very fluid and used selectively by the EBU.

However, my main problem, that many have indicated, is a growing trend of making decisions about the contest behind the closed doors. Some tiny things are actually indicative about the direction the contest is taking. Producer's choice, for example: who came up with a proposal to place half of the entries this way? For me this is concerning while at the same time I understand the need to move the competition forward. This rule hasn't contributed in any way.

Finally, fake applauses are actually fake information/disinformation - how is this different than what authorative regimes around the globe are doing? It is not ok.

 

[EscGeek]

Ok, where to start?:

Portugal knew what they were doing and EBU decided they had crossed the line. That's a non issue.

When it comes to "flag rules" i just want consistency. If rainbow flag is allowed, i see no reason to ban the non binary flag. Either ban them both because they are not countries or allow them all. And banning the EU flag is just dumb. Most of us are european and that's the one flag we can unite under.
Somehow i do understand the ban of the dutch flag given the very devastating and awkward circumstances for everybody involved.
The ban of non participating countries is aslo dumb AF.

I don't know what the israeli delegation did or didn't do, but whatever it was, it wasn't enough for a disqualification. Maybe they were just lucky, or maybe everything is fake news. I really don't know.

With the acts that weren't comfortable with Israel competing, i have to respectfully disagree. But i also missed the wholesomeness where artists were bffs for the time being like in previous years. And it was entirely Israel's fault. I guess i can't have my cake and eat it?
I hate how the audience looks at everything through a political lens. Imagine you were a 2024 contestant and you wanted to make a selfie with Eden just because you enjoy your once in a lifetime experience and want to spread joy. In worst case scenario, people will assume that you support Israel's actions and in best case scenario, they'll think that you have jewish roots yourself.
Social media has failed humanity in this regard.
If you decide to do the opposite and hide everytime you're near anyone from Israel, you just look like a jerk.

The disqualification of The Netherlands is very unfortunate, but i guess that's what happens when two overly sensitive people clash.

I hate the "producer's choice" rule and the non-random running order though. Even if Bjorkman and Osterdahl intentions are as pure as they can be, there's still a human intervention happening. And this intevention is inspired by the betting odds.

Fake applauses are unfortunately necessary because people can't behave. If you must boo, do it when the country is recieveing their points, not when it's performing.

 

[Judas]

When it comes to "flag rules" i just want consistency. If rainbow flag is allowed, i see no reason to ban the non binary flag. Either ban them both because they are not countries or allow them all. And banning the EU flag is just dumb. Most of us are european and that's the one flag we can unite under.

Has there ever been reasons given for banning non binary and EU flags?

The ban of non participating countries is aslo dumb AF.

That's not a thing though, at least in practice? I've seen many Turkish flags in this year's contest alone, not even mentioning the past years since 2013 - Turkey's withdrawal.

 

[EscGeek]

Has there ever been reasons given for banning non binary and EU flags?

Not to my knowledge

That's not a thing though, at least in practice? I've seen many Turkish flags in this year's contest alone, not even mentioning the past years since 2013 - Turkey's withdrawal.

I think this rule is fairly new.. the ones that you saw this year were successfully smugged in

Good news, they will rethink the whole flag policy.
https://eurovoix.com/2024/05/13/eurovision-flag-policy-to-be-reviewed-for-2025-contest/

 

[HarryUK]

There was a lot of appeasing to satisfy Israel. Let’s not beat around the bush here. Freedom of expression and speech were both definitely compromised in order to keep their delegation happy.

Their broadcaster and delegation are believed to have broken multiple rules throughout Eurovision week, all of which appear to have been brushed under the carpet. In contrast, The Netherlands were disqualified from the Grand Final and any symbols or flags that were deemed ‘political’ (for right or wrong) ranging from Palestinian symbols, flags of Palestine and the EU and even the non-binary flag. Fans dragged out of the arena by force for simply expressing their opinion. The mind does boggle.

Substantial changes are needed - the Executive Supervisor and the Reference Group members who oversaw these hypocritical procedures should resign with immediate affect and offer their apologies to the Netherlands (who were the 6th highest financial contributors of the 37 countries at Eurovision this year, bear in mind) and the new EBU Eurovision leadership team should be open, transparent and actually align themselves with the fans that they essentially work for.

 

[crals]

Ok, where to start?:

Portugal knew what they were doing and EBU decided they had crossed the line. That's a non issue.

Not true. The EBU blamed the late upload on technical issues and eventually uploaded the performance. The issue is that they did so only after the televoting was closed.

 

[Charly]

RTP pede à Eurovisão uma reunião para esclarecer incidentes

A RTP pediu à Eurovisão uma reunião para esclarecer os incidentes na final do Eurofestival da Canção. Entre eles está o atraso na publicação do vídeo da atuação de Iolanda, no qual a artista apresenta as unhas pintadas com motivos palestinianos.

www.rtp.pt

These issues are cropping up more and more and it seems Croatia, Spain, Norway and France are raising concerns

 

[Lumina]

The Reference Group all approved the applied rules this year. They let Israel participate, they approved the Joost DQ, they gave their ok on anything else. Martin Österdahl is certainly not the one who made the rules all by himself and he isn’t the one who gives orders. I think he‘s more of a spokesperson than a decision maker. He just forwards the decision that various groups within the EBU make as a whole. So why don’t you all get over the fact that various people from different countries (!) made those decisions, including people from countries which broadcasters and delegation even filed the complaints!

 

[ag89]

The fact they all approved something does not mean such decision were actually good... We saw what happened this year: all of it was a product of decisions that were actually - proposed and approved.

 

[Charly]

🇸🇮 Slovenia: RTVSLO Calls Eurovision Televote into Question - Eurovoix

In a statement made on their website, Slovenian broadcaster RTVSLO is calling their country's Eurovision televote into question.

eurovoix.com

 

[GermanBango]

Slovenia asking the questions we all want answered. Drag the EBU!

 

[njdevils94]

🇸🇮 Slovenia: RTVSLO Calls Eurovision Televote into Question - Eurovoix

In a statement made on their website, Slovenian broadcaster RTVSLO is calling their country's Eurovision televote into question.

eurovoix.com

I'm sure the EBU will put out a detailed statement answering every question precisely soon.

 

[HarryUK]

Slovenia is slowly becoming my favourite Balkan country (sorry Hrvatska!!!)

 

[HarryUK]

I'm sure the EBU will put out a detailed statement answering every question precisely soon.

So they should. They are accountable to those that they serve.

 

[GermanBango]

Even if they had dirt on a certain country concerning buying votes or whatever … I doubt that they would ever release it. That would basically mean they have to admit that it was a mistake to let them take part this year.

 

[Charly]

The Reference Group all approved the applied rules this year. They let Israel participate, they approved the Joost DQ, they gave their ok on anything else. Martin Österdahl is certainly not the one who made the rules all by himself and he isn’t the one who gives orders. I think he‘s more of a spokesperson than a decision maker. He just forwards the decision that various groups within the EBU make as a whole. So why don’t you all get over the fact that various people from different countries (!) made those decisions, including people from countries which broadcasters and delegation even filed the complaints!

You are correct on the fact the EBU Reference Group make the decisions and thay Martin is a spokesperson for them.

However, his key job is to liase between the two. It his job to ensure the smooth running of the contests in limes with rules that has been set out.

In the end, Martin Österdahl has failed to keep the contest running smoothly and failed to act on issues in relating to breach of rules especially from a notorious delegation who's rule breaking has been swept under the rug hence broadcasters loles RTVSLO are speaking out.

It his his key job to overseer the voting of the contest however with RTVSLO pointing out of irregularity of voting and that KAN had already admitted in cheating in a way to influence the voting.

It comes up very clear that he has failed his duties.

In order for the Executive Supervisor to carry out the job successfully they must; 1 ensure the smooth running of the contest with rules and guidelines by ALL delegations being followed and 2; voting is correct and that any irregularities must be dealt with as soon as possible.

 

[0scar]

If I was booed by 15.000 people at my job I'd quit the following day because that is a subtle hint that you did a shitty job

 

[EscGeek]

Now it's the right time for a discussion between the EBU and the broadcasters to ensure everyone is happy.

If Israel really was naughty, i wouldn't mind a temporary suspension. But I do mind that Belarus isn't allowed to come back after serving their jail time of 3 years. Even if i understand why, i'm still sad about it and i miss their auditions.

 

[0scar]

Honestly, the most shocking thing about this is that the EBU doesn't give any sign of self-criticism. And statement basically boiling down to "I'm sorry you feel this way but it is your fault" is just ????.

It seems like they are on bad terms with quite some delegations, and if they don't change their approach to this mess rapidly, I can easily see 5-10 countries withdrawing next year to make a point.