Aftermath of 2024

[Loindici]

Yes, this is a thread to discuss about the aftermath of 2024 and its probable effects on 2025.

After seeing how the 2024 contest folds out, how do you think it would affect the 2025 contest?

 

[NeoTen]

I got the spirit, but is it worth replicating? I can see more countries bringing even more experimental music or songs with bolder messages, though - because that's easier to do.

Not in this day of split voting, where music trends cycle at much faster paces. It used to work in the 2000s ('04, 05 & '07, '08) though. It could only work in a very deep recession now. Even a successful copy will have former winners go on defamation or copycat accusations just to keep their own winners streams high.
Best is to just follow the cycle of most successful genres of the last 15 years: dance-pop - glamrock - power ballad (not counting Ukraine 2022 because.... you know). So... next year if you are one of the very few with a glamrock or electro-rock-with-some-folk-track which is the EE-version of glamrock (think Shum or Dark Side), you'll probably win.
Some people will say just "come with original stuff" like Salvador, but, that guy purely won because Bulgaria wasn't experienced in fine-tuning staging to win.

 

[Andrin]

I was quite disappointed by the show.

Plastic hosts.

Former eurovision winners who sing Swedish entries instead of their own ones.

Almost no reference to Sweeden itself.

The average age of the interval acts performers must be around 50 y.o.

It was a very bizarre, artificial show with zero enthusiasm in it.

I hope 2025 will be more inventive, more local but also more diverse.

 

[Calabao]

Things that need to change:
1.Jury voting: If you look at results one jury voting for Swiss 1 5 6 1 7 results in 12 points. They calculate votes exponentially and don't look at average so if 2 jury members on average give single country first place it will end up getting almost all 12 points. It happened with Nemo, Loreen and even Gjons tears. Problem are not the juries but the use od bad math. I would let juries give all songs score from 1 to 10 Like 8.5 10 9.5 etc. and calculate average. Everyone does it that way on YouTube anyway. It would result in more different jury result.
2. I would make a big dice with 6 sides that have written on them 1-6, 6-11, 11-16, 16-21, 21-26 and jury choice and let contestants throw that dice at press centre after semis. It would be more fair and fun. At number 6 could be country from 1-6 and 6-11 etc.
3. I would ditch non music proffesionals from juries. EBU needs to make more control of who is in the jury. I would put:
Artist, songwriter, music producer etc. of
1. Pop music
2 and 3 Some different genre like jazz, rock etc
4. National traditional music
5. Any music
Tv anchor or journalist is not a music professional.
4. More control of Tv commentators. When they say next song is ......... I don't like it and here comes my personal favourite influences people a lot more then some might think like Italian commentator saying for Chanel being innapropriate resulting in 0 points from the public or this year Serbian commentator saying Teresa and Maria after Stefania....they will need to use phone book for next year to find new names because they almost used all of them and milion different examples.
5. I'm tired of writing but there are many more things.

 

[Uto]

Things that need to change:
1.Jury voting: If you look at results one jury voting for Swiss 1 5 6 1 7 results in 12 points. They calculate votes exponentially and don't look at average so if 2 jury members on average give single country first place it will end up getting almost all 12 points. It happened with Nemo, Loreen and even Gjons tears. Problem are not the juries but the use od bad math. I would let juries give all songs score from 1 to 10 Like 8.5 10 9.5 etc. and calculate average. Everyone does it that way on YouTube anyway. It would result in more different jury result.
2. I would make a big dice with 6 sides that have written on them 1-6, 6-11, 11-16, 16-21, 21-26 and jury choice and let contestants throw that dice at press centre after semis. It would be more fair and fun. At number 6 could be country from 1-6 and 6-11 etc.
3. I would ditch non music proffesionals from juries. EBU needs to make more control of who is in the jury. I would put:
Artist, songwriter, music producer etc. of
1. Pop music
2 and 3 Some different genre like jazz, rock etc
4. National traditional music
5. Any music
Tv anchor or journalist is not a music professional.
4. More control of Tv commentators. When they say next song is ......... I don't like it and here comes my personal favourite influences people a lot more then some might think like Italian commentator saying for Chanel being innapropriate resulting in 0 points from the public or this year Serbian commentator saying Teresa and Maria after Stefania....they will need to use phone book for next year to find new names because they almost used all of them and milion different examples.
5. I'm tired of writing but there are many more things.

Good list though. Apart from 4 which I feel is too hard to control and technically out of the scope of EBU control the rest are no-brainers, especially number 1 is very important as it leads to juries deciding the winner.

 

[0scar]

I had some time to digest anything that happened at Eurovision 2024 and where it came from, and in all honesty, without being funny or petty or anything, I think Eurovision would do well by a great re-organization as a whole.

It honestly feels like the contest/EBU became too rigid in the timespan of the last couple of years. Somewhere around 2010/2012/2013-ish it started to head towards bigger, better, flashier, more worldwide focused, professional, how you'd like it. And it all accumulated in this years Eurovision, where one important trigger (the Israel/Gaza conflict) exposed all the rigidness behind the scenes, with plenty of rules to keep everything "in check", in line with the bigger, better, flashier, more worldwide focused, professional contest they like it to be. And it turned out this apparently was NOT the right direction in which Eurovision should have been heading to. The fact that there are now what? 15+? broadcasters that call out the EBU for what happened in Malmö speaks volumes.

It feels like it has been a caroussel of people involved in the EBU that embodied that direction of the contest. By resignation of everyone involved and a re-organization of the whole team behind Eurovision, with a fresh mind, and start to build this contest again. Thinking EVERYTHING through again. What is the purpose of this contest? Should it be completely void of politics, or is it somewhat a blueprint of issues that play in European society? Should it be focused on a worldwide viewership, or should we go back to it being mainly European focused? Is it a competition, or a music show? Is it focused on European unity/culture or what is it? And so on, so on, so on. This needs to be done by NEW people who are not influenced by people who are currently in charge and let the contest to get off the rails. Invite people from all broadcasters, ask for input from fans and European civilians, idk.

Of course, somethings can stay. The iconic douze points do not need to go away, by all means. Getting the right to host after winning should stay. They should rethink the root and nature of the contest, the core of it.

This cannot be done for the 2025 contest of course, so if I way the one in charge, I would announce this for the contest after the 2025 one. Let these people do the 2025 as an encore edition if they have to. Skip 2026, and come back actually bigger, better and more professional, with a nature and goal for the contest that's not artificially based on integrity, in 2027. Hosted in the winning country of the 2025 contest.

 

[b4ld3r]

"The EBU needs to stop blaming the delegations and artists" — Norway's HoD Stig Karlsen addresses Eurovision 2024 scandals

"The EBU need to be more humble and take responsibility." That's the message from Norway's long-time Head of Delegation for Eurovision.

wiwibloggs.com

Posted it in the Norway thread, but interesting quote from Stig Karlsen:
"Right now, it’s a tough task to get artists, songwriters, partners, and team members to engage and commit to the project"

I think this might be the main fallout from this year, especially in countries that are less sympathetic to the Israeli side. Worth keeping in mind that the calls for boycott by BDS will remain indefinitely as long as Israel participates.

The reason as to why several artists who are against the war remained in the contest this year was because they commited before the Israeli response to the attacks in October really kicked into gear. This upcoming edition, the whole war will be a factor before the submission deadlines.

We saw how intense the withdrawal campaigns against Olly Alexander and Bambie got. Combine that with how negative/intense of an experience many of the artists seem to have had (Joost, Bambie, Silvester, etc), I think a decent amount of artists who were interested a year ago might choose to not get involved for a while. The music industry in several of these countries are small, and things spread quickly.
Of course I still think there will be lots of people interested, but maybe a bit more corporate and less interesting.

When it comes to the broadcasters, it will be interesting to see if the host country impacts the amount of participants at all. I don't think we'll see Montenegro or N. Macedonia return when it's hosted in the country with the most expensive accomodation, considering their already poor finances. Not sure if that's something any poor country (Moldova, etc) would withdraw over, however.

 

[Lance Esgard]

When it comes to the broadcasters, it will be interesting to see if the host country impacts the amount of participants at all. I don't think we'll see Montenegro or N. Macedonia return when it's hosted in the country with the most expensive accomodation, considering their already poor finances. Not sure if that's something any poor country (Moldova, etc) would withdraw over, however.

Romania can be added to the list of nations considering returning who may choose not to return this time around due to the heightened costs of participation in Switzerland.

 

[SpiritofKeiino]

I hope we don't get down to 1 SF next year. Unlikely, but possible especially when you have a lot of dissatisfied broadcasters and delegations.

I think EBU are probably scrambling to find a reason to banish KAN. They won't want this mess next year, even if the war calms down a bit.

 

[HarryUK]

I hope we don't get down to 1 SF next year. Unlikely, but possible especially when you have a lot of dissatisfied broadcasters and delegations.

I think EBU are probably scrambling to find a reason to banish KAN. They won't want this mess next year, even if the war calms down a bit.

No scrambling needed. The comments made about Bambie Thug on the KAN broadcast of the live shows is more than enough, especially if all Joost has to do is push a camera out of his face to get banned

 

[Gera11]

Romania can be added to the list of nations considering returning who may choose not to return this time around due to the heightened costs of participation in Switzerland.

It's not the cost that is the main concern when it comes to our participation, trust me. Just as with the EBU, the TVR leadership is lacking greatly, focusing on other things. In 2024, their main focus was on getting the broadcasting rights for the Olympics Games (basically the only thing making them stay relevant in any way), then there was the opening of a new headquarters in Craiova and of two new channels, so please, they are not in need of funding at all.

 

[Mainshow]

No scrambling needed. The comments made about Bambie Thug on the KAN broadcast of the live shows is more than enough, especially if all Joost has to do is push a camera out of his face to get banned

I really beg to differ. The comments made about Bambie Thug weren't that bad - compared to what our former German commentator said over the years (comparing artists to prostitutes or ADHD patients) - that's why I only watch Eurovision on YouTube without commentary.
He compared 2015 dancers looking like Gollum from Lord of the Rings (how is that even better?), 2013 lurking for "victims" (= bashing his music; comparing him to a real vampire)

The comments about "a lot of dark spells, satanic symbols" weren't that bad and honestly, that's what Bambie Thug's performance was about? - I voted for Ireland, btw - but Bambie summoning a demon whilst looking scarier than any Netflix-funded horror movie and dancing in a pentagram might have caused such comments?

 

[Loindici]

I'm a bit skeptical that we'll have a more countries for 2025. The EBU need to persuade Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Montenegro and North Macedonia to participate again but I don't think it's their priorities at the moment. At the same time, we have a literal dispute between EBU and several broadcasters, and Australia could likely pull out due to lack of funding and for their second non-qualification.

 

[HarryUK]

I really beg to differ. The comments made about Bambie Thug weren't that bad - compared to what our former German commentator said over the years (comparing artists to prostitutes or ADHD patients) - that's why I only watch Eurovision on YouTube without commentary.
He compared 2015 dancers looking like Gollum from Lord of the Rings (how is that even better?), 2013 lurking for "victims" (= bashing his music; comparing him to a real vampire)

The comments about "a lot of dark spells, satanic symbols" weren't that bad and honestly, that's what Bambie Thug's performance was about? - I voted for Ireland, btw - but Bambie summoning a demon whilst looking scarier than any Netflix-funded horror movie and dancing in a pentagram might have caused such comments?

The comments were highly offensive and even enough for Bambie to call them out on their social media.

 

[Mainshow]

The comments were highly offensive and even enough for Bambie to call them out on their social media.

"There will be a lot of spells and black magic and dark clothing, Satanic symbols, and voodoo dolls, like we are at Cats Square in Jerusalem in the mid-90s," the commentator said, referring to a well-known public square in Jerusalem that was central to the city’s nightlife in the 1990s and synonymous with goth culture.

The commentator said there was "some controversy" in Ireland about the song, referencing a petition calling on RTÉ to disqualify Doomsday Blue as Ireland’s entry.

source: rte.ie

How are they "highly offensive"? - They were a bit tacky indeed - like other comments comming from other countries targeting at other participants as well but I wholeheartedly disagree with Bambie and fans making such a fuss about it - like demanding the EBU to ban a broadcaster over it.

Bambie called themselves a witch several times on social media prior the semi final and also during the press conference after they qualified.
Getting that piece of information and having watched their controversial performance (her "demonic" dancer, her costumes, the pentagram), such comments were about to happen. The performance was meant to provoke/be controversial to attract viewers and voters alike.

The second part of the Israeli comment ("some controversersy in Ireland") is backed up by several articles on this forum as well. Even an Irish priest called for a boycott because of Bambie's performance. We even got that one on tape and shared online.

The comments were tacky - like I said - but I don't think they are "more than enough" to ban a broadcaster.
We've heard way worse throughout Eurovision history.
The EBU needed to ban other broadcasters first/as well.

 

[HarryUK]

source: rte.ie

How are they "highly offensive"? - They were a bit tacky - like comments comming from other countries targeting at other participants as well but I wholeheartedly disagree with Bambie and fans making a fuss about it.

Bambie called themselves a witch several times on social media prior the semi final and also during the press conference after they qualified.
Getting that piece of information and having watched their controversial performance, such comments were about to happen.

The second part of the Israeli comment ("some controversersy in Ireland") is backed up by several articles on this forum as well. Even an Irish priest called for a boycott because of Bambie's performance. We even got that one on tape and shared online.

The comments were tacky - like I said - but I don't think they are "more than enough" to ban a broadcaster.
We've heard way worse throughout Eurovision history.
The EBU needed to ban other broadcasters first/as well.

Bambie made a complaint themselves about it. Other comments were made that had threatening undertones, which are at the centre of their complaint.

 

[Mainshow]

Bambie made a complaint themselves about it. Other comments were made that had threatening undertones, which are at the centre of their complaint.

Any sources about the other comments?
I searched for them a few days ago and right now and I can just find the one from RTÉ on other sites/blogs as well.
Threatening undertones sound really bad and the EBU needs to look into it/discuss it, for sure.
But the comments I posted were "fine" (unnecessary and tacky but fine in the sense that it's common for Eurovision commentators to deliver such mess to entertain brain-dead viewers who like to hear "funny" comments which are aimed to bash artists and entries from other countries).

Edit:

I found this video and Bambie claimed that the Israeli broadcaster "incited violence against them".
That's really, really messed up and serious.
But do we have the original wording? I would like to know which comments during the broadcast made them draw that conclusion.

 

[HarryUK]

Any sources about the other comments?
I searched for them a few days ago and right now and I can just find the one from RTÉ on other sites/blogs as well.
Threatening undertones sound really bad and the EBU needs to look into it/discuss it, for sure.
But the comments I posted were "fine" (unnecessary and tacky but fine in the sense that it's common for Eurovision commentators to deliver such mess to entertain brain-dead viewers who like to hear "funny" comments which are aimed to bash artists and entries from other countries).

Edit:

I found this video and Bambie claimed that the Israeli broadcaster "incited violence against them".
That's really, really messed up and serious.
But do we have the original wording? I would like to know which comments during the broadcast made them draw that conclusion.

I can't find it now but it was something along the lines of them needing to 'watch their back' over comments about Israel

 

[Loindici]

So, the Moroccanoil partnership continues. I'm not expecting much changes.

 

[Charly]

x.com

x.com

Quite shocked about the behaviour of the commentary. Ofcourse Wogan has been bar in the oast but not at this level.

Even the call outs of Amalek to artists etc. :/

 

[0scar]

Well EBU let's see how consistently you are with implementing your rules of conduct x