Possible new rule for Grand Final Televoting

[EscGeek]

I am not sure how effective that is though as someone could vote only for Israel, or a neighbour country, 5 times - but that's it. And then Diasphora wouldn't be reduced, it would just limit voting

Well, voting for Israel shouldn't be illegal , but 5 votes max instead of 20 would make it harder for a very motivated crowd to disproportionately affect the results

 

[Slabsson79]

Well, voting for Israel shouldn't be illegal , but 5 votes max instead of 20 would make it harder for a very motivated crowd to disproportionately affect the results

Agreed. A limit of votes per ONE country within the current max. amount is one way to reduce disproportionate votings and you are still able to make your own personal ranking within your allocated amount of votes.

 

[seriouslyscratchy1]

Really - I think the EBU should just ban Israel and then all will be resolved

 

[rasmuslights]

Well, voting for Israel shouldn't be illegal , but 5 votes max instead of 20 would make it harder for a very motivated crowd to disproportionately affect the results

I know what you mean. But I doubt this would solve this to the extent where we could say yes Israel won't win.

Since it would still be possible to vote 5 times from idk 4 different devices.

Like the change wouldn't be significant, I think in countries where Israel got 12 points, they probably won with around 20 % margin of votes (as seen last year in leaked Italian votes), so this may reduce it by 5 %, but Israel would still win the 12 points.

As seriouslyscratchy1 said: just ban Israel, the fastest and easiest solution.

 

[Slabsson79]

As seriouslyscratchy1 said: just ban Israel, the fastest and easiest solution.

Then it would have to be defined, when Israel can return. A suspensios should only be done on grounds of a fair competition, not to appease genocidal fantasies of an odd mixture of far-leftists and islamists who would see this as their victory and one step towards their ultimate goal of destroying Israel.

 

[rasmuslights]

Then it would have to be defined, when Israel can return. A suspensios should only be done on grounds of a fair competition, not to appease genocidal fantasies of an odd mixture of far-leftists and islamists who would see this as their victory and one step towards their ultimate goal of destroying Israel.

Honestly, we don't need them back... If they got expelled, I doubt they would ever want to return anyway since they would call this move anti-semitic.

BTW, why are we again equating holding the Israeli government accountable for their awful crimes with destroying Israel?
Where is the nuance?

 

[seriouslyscratchy1]

I do want to see a 5th Israeli win but not now

 

[Slabsson79]

Honestly, we don't need them back... If they got expelled, I doubt they would ever want to return anyway since they would call this move anti-semitic.

BTW, why are we again equating holding the Israeli government accountable for their awful crimes with destroying Israel?
Where is the nuance?

Who is WE? Because i certainly want the ESC to be a broad festival of interesting music and Israel since 1973 brought timeless classics to the contest.

The suspension of Israel taking part in the ESC has nothing to do with holding the governement accountable, there are other platforms for that. A temporal suspensios should be done only on grounds of eliminating possible voting cause by other than musical factors. And looking at the nature of anti-Israeli demonstrations worldwide and who is orchestrating shoould make the intentions of this ilk clear.

 

[seriouslyscratchy1]

I don't think this is a very good idea but what if we keep 20 votes per person but then it gets quarted. It is probably rubbish because people would think that they are making 20 votes... but then it keeps it more even.

 

[rasmuslights]

Who is WE? Because i certainly want the ESC to be a broad festival of interesting music and Israel since 1973 brought timeless classics to the contest.

The suspension of Israel taking part in the ESC has nothing to do with holding the governement accountable, there are other platforms for that. A temporal suspensios should be done only on grounds of eliminating possible voting cause by other than musical factors. And looking at the nature of anti-Israeli demonstrations worldwide and who is orchestrating shoould make the intentions of this ilk clear.

OK but what actually is the difference between Russia and Israel, because I struggle to see one?

Countries like that should have no place at esc.

 

[aef]

Remove the political motive. But that’s my opinion

As much as I’m sure you’d love me to, I do not work for the EBU. It isn’t my job to come up with the solution.

It really doesn't make any sense to make a bold statement in the first place and then don't suggest any real solution.

 

[Harry]

It really doesn't make any sense to make a bold statement in the first place and then don't suggest any real solution.

Again, I’m not the EBU. I can make any statement I wish - I’m not the professional who has to find the answers. Also did I not say banning Israel would remove a lot of the current political tension? Would certainly prevent a government from attempting to steal the televote with mass targeted advertisements in order to try and prove to the world that the political actions they are taking are acceptable according to the masses… when in fact their song hasn’t experienced anywhere near the same chart success as previous televote winners, because of this unethical campaign with a very clear and obvious political motivation.

 

[Betwixt Tales]

Bin the 20 votes you can use as you like, and make it so you can for any and all participants (except your own country, of course), but you can only 1 time for each.

gone are the days were, even if you cheat with multiple credit cards, your 20 - 40 - 60 votes or however many credit cards you have, will be reduced to 1 - 2 - 3 votes.

It will get rid of spam voters and level the playing field.

I don't like the idea of being limited in how many I can vote for, but I'm fine with only being able to cast 1 vote for each.

 

[Slabsson79]

OK but what actually is the difference between Russia and Israel, because I struggle to see one?

Countries like that should have no place at esc.

Eversince 1961 we had authoritarian (and thus problematic) countries in the contest, Portugal came 1964.
Israel entered the contest in 1973 one year after the first participation of Palestine at the Olympic games and has been there thru major events like Jom Kippur, Peace with Egypt, Lebanon, Intifada etc. The ME-conflict is a very complex issue and i do not recall someone saying Russia has no right to exist, Russians are not real Russians etc. not to speak of the popular far-leftis bullcrap buzzwords (settler-colonial, apartheid etc.), ignoring that 55% of Israelis are Mizrahi.
Besides, if you look at those, who are the main actors against Israel, you can easily figure out, that they are primarily opponents of the free, liberal society - far-leftists, islamists.
Now, does that give Israel the right to do whatever? Obviously NOT. And if the EBU for the sake of voting fairness asks/orders and Israel to abstain for some time, OK. But after these obstacles have gone, Israel, 4 time winner, should be able return. Russia has no active EBU broadcaster.

 

[Zanahoria]

I thought a negative voting system where you would choose the act you like the least might be a solution to this but I changed my mind after seeing some countries’ jury placements this year (eg.Italian jury placing Austria last). if even the professional juries are doing this, the public would 100% manipulate the negative voting system against the favorites to win.

 

[seriouslyscratchy1]

E.g. UK, Ireland, Lithuania, Israel.

Imagine 1 person for each country.

UK: 15 out of 20 votes to Israel. 2 votes to Ireland. 3 to Lithuania. It then gets quartered to make it more even. 5 votes to Israel, 0.5 votes to Ireland, 0.75 to Lithuania - rounding to 5 votes, 1 vote, 1 vote.

Ireland: 10 votes to Israel. 4 votes to the UK, 6 to Lithuania. Quartered = 2.5 to Israel, 1 to UK, 1.5 to Ireland. Rounding to 3, 1, 2 votes.

Lithuania: 10 votes to Israel. 10 to Ireland. Quartered = 2.5 to Israel and Ireland.
Rounding to 3 each.

Israel: 7 to Ireland 8 to Lithuania, 5 to the UK
Quartered becomes 1.75 to Ireland, 2 to Lithuania, 1.25 to the UK. Rounded is 2, 2, 1.

Overall result:

1. Israel - 11 votes
2. Ireland - 9 votes
3. UK - 6 votes
4. Lithuania - 5 votes

With many other voters in each country - it would be more tight for the 1-12. Would be a controversial system though

Edit: Just realised it wouldn't really work.

 

[Sammy]

Really - I think the EBU should just ban Israel and then all will be resolved

Or they just ask you personally who you think should win and act accordingly.

on a serious note:

If the system needs a change then because there is a serious flaw that could affect any country.

If you want to change it just to prevent a specific country to do well, that‘s just arbitrary and I don’t think anyone would wish to introduce that kind of ruling.

 

[seriouslyscratchy1]

Or they just ask you personally who you think should win and act accordingly.

I always agree with the juries so yes

 

[seriouslyscratchy1]

Just do the Jr eurovision system

 

[Sammy]

I always agree with the juries so yes

well EBU and Juries are two pair of shoes…