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Loindici

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Based on that definition, schools share propaganda by simply educating pupils. Teachers spread information for a certain cause: education. A top-notch education generates a good reputation for their schools (schools are institutions).

Well, yes.

i.e. In Indonesia, we're often taught to loathe the actions done by Dutch people, since, you know, 350 years of colonization -- through History and Civics. The actual stance of modern-day Indonesians will be each to their own, though -- Indonesia and Netherlands' modern relations are relatively positive, even.

We are also taught that Japanese colonization was even harsher than the Dutch, yet Japanese culture has colonized the country positively in modern-day Indonesia.
 

dixenborg

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I just don't understand how a Ukrainian person can watch their country get bombed, ruined and quite literally raped by another country and yet act like money should be spent on a luxury like hosting Eurovision. That's a complete disgrace towards the people who are risking their life and have ultimately died for Ukraine. If anything, having your own country at war should set your priorities straight, one would think. Europe celebrated the cultural value that is Ukraine by choosing them as the winners this year. I'm so tired of this forum tbh. Most of us just want the EBU to keep it real and not gaslight the fans.

Because people need hope. People need pride. People need dignity.

Eurovision isn’t just a tv show, it isn’t just a festival in the host city, it isn’t just a gathering of thousands of Eurogays. It’s more than that.

War is about more than purely survival, it’s about the country you want to rise like a phoenix (pun intended) from the ashes of destruction. This is about saying that Ukrainians deserve hope, Ukrainians deserve pride, Ukrainians deserve dignity.

Ultimately they weren’t allowed to host, probably correctly so, but they did deserve the right to at least consider how it might work out on their own terms.
 

HarryUK

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I can't wait for the SNP to try and capitalise on Glasgow hosting Eurovision 2023 (an event that will be funded by the BBC as well as British taxpayers) when their sole aim is to break up our Union... They can get in the bin
 

AlekS

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Because people need hope. People need pride. People need dignity.

Eurovision isn’t just a tv show, it isn’t just a festival in the host city, it isn’t just a gathering of thousands of Eurogays. It’s more than that.

War is about more than purely survival, it’s about the country you want to rise like a phoenix (pun intended) from the ashes of destruction. This is about saying that Ukrainians deserve hope, Ukrainians deserve pride, Ukrainians deserve dignity.

Ultimately they weren’t allowed to host, probably correctly so, but they did deserve the right to at least consider how it might work out on their own terms.

For some fans Eurovision is just an excuse to "drink a pina colada and go to nightclubs" and it doesn't get deeper than that. For them people in Ukraine do not go to clubs here and don't have fun, Ukrainians should mourn every day and work 24/7. Their perverted and limited perception has no f-en clue about real life at the frontline. That life doesn't die here. That we chose to participate still (and didn't listen to trolls shaming us) and this victory is incredibly valuable ... not only Kalush have gathered 1.3 million euros for the army thanks to Eurovision auction only, but you can't even imagine how much it has influenced our soldiers and their families. How many of them watched the performance. How much it has united our people (no wonder it became the most popular YT debut here of all times). How much attention has it brought to humanitarian initiatives thanks to Eurovision. How many lives it has saved.
 

AlekS

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I just don't understand how a Ukrainian person can watch their country get bombed, ruined and quite literally raped by another country and yet act like money should be spent on a luxury like hosting Eurovision. That's a complete disgrace towards the people who are risking their life and have ultimately died for Ukraine. If anything, having your own country at war should set your priorities straight, one would think. Europe celebrated the cultural value that is Ukraine by choosing them as the winners this year. I'm so tired of this forum tbh. Most of us just want the EBU to keep it real and not gaslight the fans.
I don't understand how someone can demean all the good things Eurovision has brought to us. Eurovision is not a luxury (maybe it is for you) - we received more than we spent, and we sent these money to the army and humanitarian organizations. Moreover, Stefania has become a refugee anthem. Litearally, our railway company plays it on refugee trains arrival inside the country. Not to mention that volunteer organizations were closely tied to Kalush this year. That Jamala and other participants have gathered more than 80 million euros (!) thanks to Eurovision events and that bringing attention to our country because of hosting would helped even more.

Our soldiers have been involved in 2017 Eurovision, they were invited to the front row. Our soldiers have been watching Eurovision near the frontline and you have no clue, no idea how much they and their families have been inspired by Kalush and their support.

I live just 25-30 km away from the frontline. I know more than you can imagine about people losing their loved ones (did you lose half of people you've previously worked with?) and how to f-en survive without water (for months), how to stand in line for water and getting shelled at the same time. When a missile is destroying your house while you're still inside (have you had this experience, because I've had :mad:). Did you spend all money you had on your army and charity? Have you guided your relatives through 20 checkpoints full of Russian troops?

Out of all people you have no clue, no moral compass, no knowledge, no f-en right to judge me or other people who do everything to survive and rescue others. We have a right to go to Eurovision here at our soil and experience as much positivity as we can, unite with other Europeans, use it for a good cause to fundraise money, and feel genuinely happy at least for a few hours. It is a "luxury" indeed. A "luxury" that we fully deserved. And yet I'm very happy for the UK, because I know how eagerly they wanted to have Eurovision. I voted for Sam, the UK is our biggest ally, they have everything to host it brilliantly, so I'm super pleased that it's them xhug
 
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FilipFromSweden

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Eurovision is not a luxury (maybe it is for you)

It is a "luxury" indeed. A luxury that we fully deserved.

Ok AlekS. I don’t really want to engage in this discussion any longer, your emotions have taken over completely and thats understandable. Wish you the best
 

AlekS

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Ok AlekS. I don’t really want to engage in this discussion any longer, your emotions have taken over completely and thats understandable. Wish you the best
I was talking about material and immaterial meanings of that word, but your emotions have taken over completely, so I wish you the same things you wish to me.
 

ESCConor

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Ukraine has apparently demanded the EBU to change their decision ...

I doubt the EBU will.

Its just not logistically possible right now, especially considering the fact that both of Kyiv's major airports have been badly damaged by shelling and there is no guarantee that this war will be over in 11 or so months time, this war will go on for years I sadly fear, even if the war ends before May next year, there is going to be a heck of a lot of damage to repair and thats going to take a lot of money to fix.

Also, I doubt many governments will allow travel to Ukraine plus you also got the issue of flying there which is all but impossible right now.

I do hope the BBC will have Ukrainian elements within the shows, perhaps interval acts could be an obvious one.

Its just not safe there right now and the EBU has made the sensible choice here.
 

Rocket man

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I can't wait for the SNP to try and capitalise on Glasgow hosting Eurovision 2023 (an event that will be funded by the BBC as well as British taxpayers) when their sole aim is to break up our Union... They can get in the bin
Does anyone still listen to the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon anymore? They're on constant repeat, they're not a threat to the UK anymore. I'd like to see Eurovision in Glasgow, I thought they did a great job with the Commonwealth Games back in 2014.
 

AlekS

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The original city host candidates were:
  • Kyiv
  • Lviv
  • Uzhhorod

Uzhhorod is the only fully safe city as of now. But there's no venue, unless they wanted to have something like 2017 Odesa bid.
 
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AlekS

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I doubt the EBU will.

Its just not logistically possible right now, especially considering the fact that both of Kyiv's major airports have been badly damaged by shelling and there is no guarantee that this war will be over in 11 or so months time, this war will go on for years I sadly fear, even if the war ends before May next year, there is going to be a heck of a lot of damage to repair and thats going to take a lot of money to fix.

Also, I doubt many governments will allow travel to Ukraine plus you also got the issue of flying there which is all but impossible right now.
As I've said, the main stake was at Lviv. There're free lanes for the tech trucks from the border + transfers from Polish airports by fast train. We already have guarantees from numerous countries as for damage repair + Russia's confiscated money will be used.
I fully agree about the travel ban tho. Also there are no suitable venues in Lviv, but they could cover Arena Lviv temporarily .
 
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Mainshow

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HarryUK

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I'd love for Ukraine to be able to host it, but it's really just not possible right now. Yes, by May of next year things may be better (a very slim chance in my view...), but so much pre-planning goes into Eurovision and candidate cities need to be ready now. With that, I think the UK is the best place to host Eurovision - both as a member of the big five (therefore one of the more financially viable options) and as runner up of this year's edition. Not to mention, the UK are one of Ukraine's biggest and closest allies right now. What I'd love is to be able to do this for Ukraine, to make their people and their country proud. Slava Ukraini & I hope we can do you proud, should the BBC take up hosting duties.
 

Brandt

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Because people need hope. People need pride. People need dignity.

Eurovision isn’t just a tv show, it isn’t just a festival in the host city, it isn’t just a gathering of thousands of Eurogays. It’s more than that.

War is about more than purely survival, it’s about the country you want to rise like a phoenix (pun intended) from the ashes of destruction. This is about saying that Ukrainians deserve hope, Ukrainians deserve pride, Ukrainians deserve dignity.

Ultimately they weren’t allowed to host, probably correctly so, but they did deserve the right to at least consider how it might work out on their own terms.
I don't think like maybe 95% of the people who watch eurovision even remotely think of it THAT dramatically lol. Most of us just wanna have a fun night and go to sleep.
 

Brandt

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It was a pity victory to begin with anyway. I am glad the Eurovision is now going to be hosted in its belonged location.

Good luck :uk: xheart
 

Geborgenheit

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All this drama again. Why is this done and said now? I am not against UK hosting the Eurovision, good luck. But EBU is a corrupted organization. They would give Eurovision to Russia if they could.
 
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