United Kingdom UNITED KINGDOM 2024 - Olly Alexander - Dizzy

[ESC United Mod Team]

 

[MopManMoss]

The Welsh population makes up 4.7% of the UK population yet Welsh artists have made up 11% of British Eurovision entries (1970, 1976, 1990, 2002, 2004, 2013, 2017)

Should we stop letting Welsh people be eurovision artists until the number is closer to their population in British society? No that is madness stop with this American intersectionality nonsense, one person or one group are never ever going to represent the entire country of the United Kingdom and its very varied demographics

TaP & the BBC should be picking on the merits of the song and the ability of the individual/group to deliver that song not what race/sexuality/age/religion/nationality/culture they are

 

[Chalphon]

It is a song contest not jury duty, one person (or six) is never going to represent everyone that lives in a country

The UK black population is just under 3%, more than 3% of British entries have been Black artists

There has never been a British Asian performer at Eurovision but those communities generally have considerably worse issues with integration into wider society than other ethnic minority communities in the UK so that goes way above eurovision

No one said the representation had to be the exact percentage of the population. Loindici just pointed out that it's been a long time since a person of colour represented the UK.

If a person of south Asian descent can become prime minister I'm pretty sure the UK can find one to send to ESC.

 

[Chalphon]

The Welsh population makes up 4.7% of the UK population yet Welsh artists have made up 11% of British Eurovision entries (1970, 1976, 1990, 2002, 2004, 2013, 2017)

Should we stop letting Welsh people be eurovision artists until the number is closer to their population in British society? No that is madness stop with this American intersectionality nonsense, one person or one group are never ever going to represent the entire country of the United Kingdom and its very varied demographics

TaP & the BBC should be picking on the merits of the song and the ability of the individual/group to deliver that song not what race/sexuality/age/religion/nationality/culture they are

First sentence: and yet none of them sung in Welsh.

Second sentence: no, that would be riddiculous. Who are you talking to? Litterally no one has suggested an American type affimative action program for UKs ESC entries. No one suggested that every entry has to incorporate every single ethinc group from the country who sends that entry. The only thing beeing pointed out is the lack of ethnic diversity in recent years.

Third sentence: Refering to merit and/or quality is usually what majority populations does when they want to exclude minorities. Just because no artist representing the UK has ever been of south Asian desceent does not mean that artists from that group lack merit and/or quality.

 

[MopManMoss]

First sentence: and yet none of them sung in Welsh.

Second sentence: no, that would be riddiculous. Who are you talking to? Litterally no one has suggested an American type affimative action program for UKs ESC entries. No one suggested that every entry has to incorporate every single ethinc group from the country who sends that entry. The only thing beeing pointed out is the lack of ethnic diversity in recent years.

Third sentence: Refering to merit and/or quality is usually what majority populations does when they want to exclude minorities. Just because no artist representing the UK has ever been of south Asian desceent does not mean that artists from that group lack merit and/or quality.

At no point have I ever said that British Asian artists lack merit or quality they are just a lot more isolated than other ethnic groups in British society it goes way beyond the music industry

And also just on the lack of welsh point you are a swede I really wouldnt go on about lack of native language at Eurovision from other countries

 

[Chalphon]

At no point have I ever said that British Asian artists lack merit or quality they are just a lot more isolated than other ethnic groups in British society it goes way beyond the music industry

And also just on the lack of welsh point you are a swede I really wouldnt go on about lack of native language at Eurovision from other countries

No but that is the subtext when you claim you go for merit and a group is excluded from said merit. There are plenty of succesfull south Asians in the UK, I highky doubt the music industry completely lack their representation.

Yes I am from Sweden and we have sent more songs in Swedish than we have in English if you were to round them up. However Sweden is one kingdom, not a union of kingdoms including Wales without songs sung in Welsh. Also, I didn't examplify using Wales, you did. I just commented that none of you examples were songs sung in Welsh.

 

[Leydan]

The Welsh population makes up 4.7% of the UK population yet Welsh artists have made up 11% of British Eurovision entries (1970, 1976, 1990, 2002, 2004, 2013, 2017)

Should we stop letting Welsh people be eurovision artists until the number is closer to their population in British society? No that is madness stop with this American intersectionality nonsense, one person or one group are never ever going to represent the entire country of the United Kingdom and its very varied demographics

TaP & the BBC should be picking on the merits of the song and the ability of the individual/group to deliver that song not what race/sexuality/age/religion/nationality/culture they are

That % gets even higher when we consider 1/2 of Joe & Jake was Welsh also.

Couldn't put it better with myself. There is no bigger insult to diversity than forcing it. It's disingenious and done for none of the right reasons - just to fill the quota of inclusivity. Something we see sooo much nowadays in TV & Film - done purely to bait attention, negative or not. I do not oppose us one day sending a song in Welsh, or tapping into the music scenes of some communities but it shouldn't be the initial goal they set out to do. The main and only focus should be finding the best song & singer regardless of the rest. Also if we're looking at a lack of diversity in British singers, lets not forget that Mae is literally Jewish. There is more diversity than just the colour of someones skin or the language they speak.

 

[Loindici]

The Welsh population makes up 4.7% of the UK population yet Welsh artists have made up 11% of British Eurovision entries (1970, 1976, 1990, 2002, 2004, 2013, 2017)

Should we stop letting Welsh people be eurovision artists until the number is closer to their population in British society? No that is madness stop with this American intersectionality nonsense, one person or one group are never ever going to represent the entire country of the United Kingdom and its very varied demographics

TaP & the BBC should be picking on the merits of the song and the ability of the individual/group to deliver that song not what race/sexuality/age/religion/nationality/culture they are

Mop I was just asking for a PoC representative for the UK and it comes to this I am sorry that I brought the white-centric part when it's not necessary.

But again, if we're picking by merits of song and performer, even Lianne La Havas, FLO, Grimes, Ella Mai, or FKA Twigs could be good picks for the UK.

 

[Chrisiam]

For those playing along at home, Ellis-Bextor has dismissed rumours that she will represent the UK in 2024. Stating that she remembers the rumours from about a decade ago, is perfectly fine with where her career is right now, feels it would be a gamble for her to do it (Which it honestly would be), but would be up for writing a song for the UK.

Will Sophie step up from kitchen disco to Eurovision 2024 stage?

Sophie Ellis-Bextor is put on the spot about whether she'd be up for being next year's UK entry.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Ajeje Brazorf]

82% according to the 2021 census. Which mean that almost every fifth ESC-entry could be performed by a person of colour if represented statistically accurate.

Nope, 82% considering only England and Wales. 90.9% considering Northern Ireland and Scotland too. In Scotland and Northern Ireland the whites are over 95% of the population.

 

[Loindici]

With the 25th place (?) and a top 10 at OC this year, do you think BBC will continue their partnership with Tap? Tap gave us a full package in 2022 and a competent song in 2023, but the Big 5 aside of Italy seems Georgia-inconsistent when it comes to selections, and oftentimes easily discouraged by bad results.

Aside of that, I think 2023 proves -- again -- the point of "having an interesting + charismatic performer" being important. Watching the performance, Mae's charisma feels like a significant drop from Sam's and her vocals were driving away attention (I think she's nervous, though). I feel it affected the result, aside of other unexplainable factors.

 

[rasmuslights]

With the 25th place (?) and a top 10 at OC this year, do you think BBC will continue their partnership with Tap? Tap gave us a full package in 2022 and a competent song in 2023, but the Big 5 aside of Italy seems Georgia-inconsistent when it comes to selections, and oftentimes easily discouraged by bad results.

Aside of that, I think 2023 proves -- again -- the point of "having an interesting + charismatic performer" being important. Watching the performance, Mae's charisma feels like a significant drop from Sam's and her vocals were driving away attention (I think she's nervous, though). I feel it affected the result, aside of other unexplainable factors.

I hope they continue with TAP. Song-wise I even preferred this year to last year but live it just didn't work even though the staging was quite good.

 

[Chrisiam]

Honestly I feel that the BBC wouldn't mind continuing to do it with TaP. It is all a matter of TaP wants to continue doing it. Given they were initially unsure about doing it in 23 the bad result might put them off now. Or if they do it then it might be as a last roll of the dice; if they do good then they might continue into 25 and beyond. If not, then 24 will likely be the last time they do it. Again, providing if they even do it for 24 in the first place.

 

[theditz83]

Lord, this thread went crazy quickly. Regardless of the race, gender, sexual orientation, hairiness, height, or [insert your own variable here] of the act, the crucial factors are:

1. Can they perform competently and confidently live?
2. Is the song appealing meaning the juries and public will want to vote for it in large numbers?

If either of those two factors aren't achieved then it's game over.

 

[rasmuslights]

Lord, this thread went crazy quickly. Regardless of the race, gender, sexual orientation, hairiness, height, or [insert your own variable here] of the act, the crucial factors are:

1. Can they perform competently and confidently live?
2. Is the song appealing meaning the juries and public will want to vote for it in large numbers?

If either of those two factors aren't achieved then it's game over.

Exactly. Race, sex. orientation shouldn't matter at all imo.

 

[Loindici]

Honestly I feel that the BBC wouldn't mind continuing to do it with TaP. It is all a matter of TaP wants to continue doing it. Given they were initially unsure about doing it in 23 the bad result might put them off now. Or if they do it then it might be as a last roll of the dice; if they do good then they might continue into 25 and beyond. If not, then 24 will likely be the last time they do it. Again, providing if they even do it for 24 in the first place.

If that is the case, I hope BBC would give a more convincing offer for TaP. The collaboration seems to provide better selection of representatives and ensures them with better management.

I'm doubtful of how plausible this is, but I feel TaP might reconsider if there's a positive attitude change towards Eurovision within the public eye. I've read some positive notes here and there, but I'm only seeing things from outside. How is the attitude towards Eurovision in the UK changed, though, after the 2023 edition?

 

[HarryUK]

I've seen rumours that the BBC and TaP have parted ways... that would be a huge blow if true

 

[JenJen94]

I've seen rumours that the BBC and TaP have parted ways... that would be a huge blow if true

I think they were persuaded back for 2023 because of the home soil contest! Yes, it would be a shame if true definitely, and yes, i'm nervous about it but remember, it was actually Scott Mills who actually discovered Sam, so....

 

[MopManMoss]

Get kate bush out of the house I would do anything for it

 

[Mainshow]

TaP and BBC parting ways is kinda funny since they did a terrible job by letting Mae representing the UK on home soil. She was the worst vocalist of the night and the song itself was catchy but mediocre at best.

BBC should be looking for edgier artists who can actually sing again.
Mediocre performances have never turned into a mid-table results for Big 5 countries recently.

STAY AWAY from legend/nostalgic acts like Engelbert and Bonnie!
And no more Irish-esque national finals and newcomers like 2016, 2017 pls!

 

[HarryUK]

Get kate bush out of the house I would do anything for it

Running up that stage to make a deal with Martin Österdahl