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Ukraine UKRAINE 2023 - Tvorchi - Heart of Steel
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A-lister
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Although, Måneskin was undoubtedly a fair winner (eventhough Go_A were my personal favs as well). It's very true that the juries downvote certain countries, and certain genres and styles as well. Everything that has character is basically downvoted and the downvote of countries IS indeed political. Even to this day, "western" countries can get away with much lazier attempts than eastern can.
Mainshow
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Although, Måneskin was undoubtedly a fair winner (eventhough Go_A were my personal favs as well). It's very true that the juries downvote certain countries, and certain genres and styles as well. Everything that has character is basically downvoted and the downvote of countries IS indeed political. Even to this day, "western" countries can get away with much lazier attempts than eastern can.
Maneskin was indeed a great winner and I´m not trying to downplay anything.
I just think that awarding less than 100 points to Go_A - despite being the most original entry of the night accompanied by a brilliant performance (which ended up being #2 in the televoting) was somehow a political choice.
I see no logical reason why "Shum" deserved to get 200 points less from the juries than Maneskin.
BUT I´m totally pleased with the actual results - both in 2021 as well as 2022 - I´m just tired of the whole "Ukraine just won because of "X"" shit (despite knowing that the televoting score was inflated) but still - "Stefania" was a great and deserving winner.
In another year, it might have ended up #2 or #4 but really.. who cares? - It´s not like we´ve been discussing #14 to #16 places of 2022 or 2021 and why they must have been of political nature or not
- It´s just a tiny (and not really important) gap - just like 2021 when "Shum" could have rightfully won
A-lister
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Maneskin was indeed a great winner and I´m not trying to downplay anything.
I just think that awarding less than 100 points to Go_A - despite being the most original entry of the night accompanied by a brilliant performance (which ended up being #2 in the televoting) was somehow a political choice.
I see no logical reason why "Shum" deserved to get 200 points less from the juries than Maneskin.
BUT I´m totally pleased with the actual results - both in 2021 as well as 2022 - I´m just tired of the whole "Ukraine just won because of "X"" shit (despite knowing that the televoting score was inflated) but still - "Stefania" was a great and deserving winner.
In another year, it might have ended up #2 or #4 but really.. who cares? - It´s not like we´ve been discussing #14 to #16 places of 2022 or 2021 and why they must have been of political nature or not
I completely agree with you, and Shum was a clear case where juries didn't do their job, they downvoted an entry based on country, authenticity and originality and, as many times before, proved their complete lack of expertise and objectivity.
I also agree with you that the whole debate that Ukraine won (or will win again) based on sympathy votes alone is tiring and is mostly pushed by the usual suspects anyways who will always find any negative spin on Ukraine.
Ukraine remains one of the countries that put the most effort in Eurovision and completely understand the task at hand, so naturally it is paying off. Also, just like you said, if we hypothetically entertain the idea that Kalush won simply out of sympathy, then it's not like they would end up midscore anyways.
But it's just lame that the same argumentation pops up again, even before we heard any Vidbir entries. The agenda isn't even subtle any longer, it's just based on pettyness and some people simply being anti Ukraine (the country).
HayashiM
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I agree the stabs at 's victory are getting really tiring and the arguments get repetitive as well.
What it boils down to is that people took back control and voted for in overwhelming numbers. Not some 200 dudes behind desks making shady mutual agreements, but actual people. "Political" influences aside, this is what Europe really wanted. Enough said.
Btw, I don't believe the salty feelings would be nearly as accentuated in the fandom if it wasn't for the 2 of the big nations finally trying and just falling short - with their fans being constantly fed the false narrative of "Europe hates us" for years, only to further perpetuate that feeling with a false "they stole our victory when we should have won".
Had it been, say, Bulgaria 2nd and Switzerland 3rd, people would remain salty, but not nearly as much.
's victory are getting really tiring and the arguments get repetitive as well.What it boils down to is that people took back control
and voted for in overwhelming numbers. Not some 200 dudes behind desks making shady mutual agreements, but actual people. "Political" influences aside, this is what Europe really wanted. Enough said.Btw, I don't believe the salty feelings would be nearly as accentuated in the fandom if it wasn't for the 2 of the big nations finally trying and just falling short - with their fans being constantly fed the false narrative of "Europe hates us" for years, only to further perpetuate that feeling with a false "they stole our victory when we should have won".
Had it been, say, Bulgaria 2nd and Switzerland 3rd, people would remain salty, but not nearly as much.
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Mainshow
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I agree the stabs at
What it boils down to is that people took back control
Btw, I don't believe the salty feelings would be nearly as accentuated in the fandom if it wasn't for the 2 of the big nations finally trying and just falling short - with their fans being constantly fed the false narrative of "Europe hates us" for years, only to further perpetuate that feeling with a false "they stole our victory when we should have won".
Had it been, say, Bulgaria 2nd and Switzerland 3rd, people would remain salty, but not nearly as much.
You´re probably right!
I didn´t even think that way but honestly, "Space Man" just finished inside the televoting Top 5 and Chanel´s entry was more performance-driven and not really an actual "song".
As a Eurovision entry, I prefer "Stefania" (even though I voted for "Space Man" and "River" more times than for "Stefania") because of its unique sound, originality and sung in their native language.
That´s way I hate all these "not the best song won" arguments.
Best song =/= best performance
Best song =/= best Eurovision entry
Best song =/= most radio-friendly/contemporary song
"Best song" is a totally subjective opinion, you can't tell what is the best song 'cause everyone will have a different opinion
If you ask me, since I follow ESC the best song never won
But we usually get good winners (well if we scrap Netta at least
)
If you ask me, since I follow ESC the best song never won
But we usually get good winners (well if we scrap Netta at least
)
HayashiM
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Toy won the televote as well, and I must give Netta credit for that, but...But we usually get good winners (well if we scrap Netta at least
...I really wish it hadn't.
(Here goes a long elaborate expression of pure hate I am supposed not to feel and won't eventually write in detail about
).
rasmuslights
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in what style do you think jerry heil will perform in? (genre)
Maybe pop/rap. I don't care about styles tbh, as long as I like the song.
Mimmon
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Always being fan of Jerry Heil songs so..... I am looking foward to this
Mainshow
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Her voice is granting but I ADORE her!
I even bought a few songs on iTunes. So excited about her submission! PLEASE BE GOOD!!!!
Yes, it is tiring indeed to explain such a clear fact.
I can understand if you justify Ukrainian victory by saying that it's how Europe wanted to show its support to Ukraine and it should be appreciated.
But it's mega delusional to think the song won based on its merits and not due to sympathy votes. I can't understand how detached some people can be from reality.
I am just sad Shum did not get the spotlight that it deserved. Unlike Stefania, it actually became a huge hit without sympathy votes and imagine how far it could go if it actually won the contest overwhelmingly. I imagine it would have been a global hit. What a missed opportunity.
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Here we go again ZzzzYes, it is tiring indeed to explain such a clear fact.
I can understand if you justify Ukrainian victory by saying that it's how Europe wanted to show its support to Ukraine and it should be appreciated.
But it's mega delusional to think the song won based on its merits and not due to sympathy votes. I can't understand how detached some people can be from reality.
Well, no one would be able to win over Måneskin, although I personally prefer Shum as a song, but objectively it was Italy's game that year. In another year I could see Shum win, but the juries did it dirty.