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The results and the aftermath

Fluke

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So, obviously like everyone else there's a lot that's been going through my mind about the final and the results, and i've been holding off posting until i could be sure what exactly to say about it, and i'm gonna try to get it all summed up somewhat coherently here.

First off, like it seems perhaps a majority of Eurofans, i'm less than satisfied with the winner and how it all went. It's ironic because Loreen is one of their most favorite winners and overall acts, yet many if not most Eurofans are disappointed that she won, and it shouldn't be hard to see why. The song was IMO unexciting and sub-par for her, and the whole win felt pre--arranged, which much has been said about already.

I got a feeling one reason she recieved so many jury points is because they wanted the sensation of another two-time winner, rather than the qualities of the entry. Adding to the irony, Loreen herself didn't even seem to care very much about it, she wasn't excited to be declared winner at all, which could suggest she somehow knew she was pre-decided to win, or didn't care either way. Swedes are, to quote Donald Trump, "tired of winning" at this point, they act as if it's like the Hockey championships or something, where it's just "oh look, we won it again, whatever".

Compare this to Finland, where people were wearing neon green in the streets, dressing up like Käärijä in the audience and shops put neon green things in their windows to celebrate Finland being a possible winner - it's a big damn thing for them, which should make anyone think they're so much more deserving than Sweden.

I'm actually surprised that reporting on this is so balanced this time, even in Swedish media, and not the "OMG you're all just jealous of our greatness" one could fear. Even casual ESC viewers - even in Sweden - are genuinely put off by what happened, particularly as Käärijä got quite popular here in Sweden too, and many though Loreen was good but overrated, and represented the old ESC/Melodifestivalen establishment which needs to be taught a lesson.

Which brings the next point: can anyone seriously say they're excited for another Swedish hosting? How is it gonna be any different than the two previous ones? We pretty much know what it's gonna be - same production team as MF, same outwardly self-mocking irony that's smug and ignorant towards the rest of Europe and what the contest means to them, sigh.

Another thing that puts me off is that Swedes, both in general and those within the MF/SVT industry, never show any gratitude when Sweden wins or does well. They don't thank the other countries for voting for them and appreciating their entries, they just act smug like it's because they're superior to all countries. How can so many non-ESC fans really say "Sweden has the best entries" when they even openly say that they don't listen to all the other entries each year?

I seriously think Sweden should consider turning down hosting for a third time in almost a decade, i haven't heard any serious calls from politicians etc. but i wouldn't be surprised if there are some soon. There's really nothing particular to achieve by hosting it at this point. The two previous hostings didn't even display much Swedish culture and i think the outcome in economy and related ways wasn't very positive, not enough to justify doing it again in such a short space of time.

Add to it, that my personal view of a Swedish hosting, like quite a few other Eurofans, is low because the two previous ones were two of the worst recent editions in several ways.

2013 had a strange, small stage, at least two of the most anger-inducing NQs in history, several disappointing results in the final, and several claims of outright sabotage of the intended stagings by the Swedish team. 2016 had another strange, awkward stage layout, several claims of sabotage and most notably, IMO the lowest quality of entries in any recent edition, and while that may not have had much to do with the host country, the pattern can't be ignored. For good reasons, i'm fearing "Sweden hosting" equals lousy songs and/or the best entries getting sabotaged by producers.

To return to the other subject, the previous time televotes picked another winner, in 2019, it didn't create any real noticable upset because Norway's Keiino wasn't a favorite with media or the public in the same way, and the system was so new that many didn't even realize what happened. As a Sámi person, i have a special reason for wanting them to win, but i would probably still have said they were the rightful winner, particularly as i hated Duncan Lawrence's entry, and it even only managed to make 3rd place with juries and 2nd with televotes, the weakest placements for a winner in history.

I don't really count 2016 as it wasn't as far off in points, and Jamala was the winner that televotes & juries could fairly agree upon. Frankly, what would people think now if Russia had actually won that year? I think most of Sergey's supporters would stay pretty quiet.

Which brings us to another problem with the current system, minor compared to the results themselves, but it seems somehow wrong that the way the points are presented doesn't honor the televote winner enough. In 2019, it wasn't really clear who got the most televote points - this year, it was, because the difference was so big and the crowd even cheered for Käärijjä, but it doesn't seem right that the presentation obscures who actually got the most votes, as most viewers won't bother to look it up afterwards.

There's something inherently backwards about showing the jury votes from each country and then televotes in one big lump - you could say the opposite way would make more sense, but unfortunately it's easy to see why they chose this way. If they were to show the televotes first, it would give the impression of the jury votes "stealing" the win from the "rightful" winner that the people selected - which might be exactly what you think it is, but they don't want to encourage that kind of thinking, thus they chose a way that deliberately makes it hard to see who actually got most televote points.

It remains to see what the EBU will do about this and i'm certainly excited to find out, and either way it's good that the criticism of the juries have actually reached mainstream media this time, as it failed to do in 2019. I was never really a fan of juries when they were re-introduced in the first place, and i hope they consider some big reform to how they work now.

Just one more thing about the results this year, what the bloody hell were the juries thinking putting ISRAEL SECOND?!? Even televoters only put it 4th! I guess they just fell for the way she delivered those ear-piercing long notes so loud, clear and completely without any expression at all, before launching into a ridiculous dance exercise with no singing for the rest of the song? "Unicorn" exemplifies exactly the kind of song juries should punish for good reason, yet they put it higher than Australia, Spain and Armenia - can anyone explain how it fits their criteria?

And Italy, the jury 3rd place, was dated, generic second-rate nonsense, but i'm not as surprised about that one. Croatia deserved a little higher, they're real musicians with a lot of thought and creativity put into their song, and Germany at least shouldn't have been below Poland, UK (yikes!) and Serbia (love the guy, but he literally didn't sing) in the jury ratings either.

Overall though, besides the bitterness, a pretty good show, they handled the "dual country hosting" pretty well, great stage design, good stagings, some disappointing performances, some i knew were gonna be bad, and not all that surprising qualifiers - i really wanted Azerbaijan and Romania in though - i can see why Georgia fans are pissed, but i wasn't that surprised, and it was televotes after all.

I just hope everyone can learn the right lessons from this edition, but given that the next host is Sweden, it doesn't seem so likely...
 

Schlagerman1

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Okay, a lot to unpack here and most of these you are entitled to your opinion, so I am not going to confront or agree withyou about that, at least not yet. But saying that Loreen somehow knew she was going to win is absolutely ridiculous and is a bit "tin foil hat" warning to say the least. Loreen is an artist that has a different view about MF and ESC. She sees it as a way to connect with the audience, it is the place where she happen to become famous with and she will, forever, whether she had won a week ago or not, been a part of it's history. She is more of an artist than a performer, she has her way of doing things and she is not afraid to do it, if she gets the chance. In a way, she is quite similar to Salvador Sobral when it comes to her art, but it is still connected to popmusic, if you know what I mean. She uses it to transform performances together with her popmusic, often with a lot of meanings and symbols in them, in all four of her MF/ESC performances.

If you seen interviews with Loreen, you can clearly see that she tends to be insecure in some moments. Before, when she won in 2012, she was very private, didn't talk much with media and was very careful with how she said things. It made her feel tough and hard to get to know for the general public and is probably the main reason for why "Statements" didn't reach the MF final in 2017. Nowadays, she has been in several TV-shows these last years and now she is more well liked among people. She is a bit of a goofball in the interviews and her mind seems easily running away from the topic sometimes, which makes me think she is much more secured in herself and relaxed today than back day.

Which leads me on to my next note, with being relaxed about the whole competition and the fact that she won. She is not stupid, everyone has talked about that it was going to be Sweden or Finland that wins. with 80% chance it was going to be her or Käärijä that was going to take the trophy. So she was mentally prepared for it, as well as it might not been so.
This was the last time she was going to enter ESC, she 39 years old and even if she has the vocal capacity to keep going on, I can't see her perform in the same way in the future. This was the last chance for her to ever do it one more time, to show people an act that she could be 100% proud of. This was the song she had waited for. And sure, everyone who competes don't mind winning, but for her it has never been about winning solely. It has been about making people feel the love that she has got over the last decade since 2012. When she won, both in Melfest and in ESC, you can see she is very happy that people loved her and her song, enough to be first in the jury, but also, which WE MAY NOT FORGET, she was the 2nd favorite of Europe. Top 3 in the televote were a landslide over the rest there, which shows that she was loved and she was popular. She could have easily been through a "John Lundvik-moment", getting 99 points and Finland would have grabbed it in the end (which I would have been equally happy about, since I loved both these songs for completly different reasons). So, that is why she sat there, tried to play it cool, not taking anything for granted.

Maybe there were talks behind her backs about the jury helping her to this 2nd victory. Maybe BBC and EBU wanted the contest to be held in Sweden next year, for whatever reason. And sure, I am actually irritated of SVT who didn't even write anything about the other acts this year on their website and still is a bit "off" when it comes to ESC, especially since Christer Björkman left and Lotta Furubäck and Karin Gunnarsson took it over from him. But don't blame Loreen. She has nothing to do about it, she is just an artist who happen to be one of the best in what she does. Leave her be and let's celebrate her instead. Cause winning or not winning, she was always going to be my queen of Eurovision.
 

I bims

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I was hoping, after the Maneskin "drug abuse rumor" or the somewhat controversial and political win of Ukraine last year, that we would finally get a break... but my god, Sweden winning is even worse. The only worse thing than drugs and politics in Eurovision... is Sweden in Eurovision, apparently.

I swear to god, if people are THIS annoying with the next winner again...
 

I bims

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Maybe there were talks behind her backs about the jury helping her to this 2nd victory. Maybe BBC and EBU wanted the contest to be held in Sweden next year, for whatever reason.
You know how many people would need to be involved so that they could then "fabricate" the juryvote to favor Sweden? You can not keep such a thing a secret. Broadcasters can't even prevent some songs from being leaked completely, government secrets are out in the open but somehow the EBU can pay off hundreds of international jurors (who all have their own agendas as well) to vote Sweden no. 1 and no one then snitches when the public gets mad?

I do think, when deciding which one of their Top 3 favourites would be their winner, that the jurors took other things into account. As you normally would do if you really like multiple things equally or find it hard to objectively compare them (especially vastily different songs and performances).
Do you give it to Israel which would be a very controversial winner because of their politics right now... Or do you give 12 to Italy again who just hosted last year.... Or do you give it to Sweden when next year is Abba's anniversary, they are the bookie favs and have the most streams and buzz overall? They try to take into account which song represents the contest the best and would be very successful internationally. So of course, Sweden then had the edge over other entries. Doesn't mean it was rigged by the EBU or planned. The jurors came to similar conclusions based on the factors they were supposed to judge the entries on.
Without those same factors, Cha Cha Cha would've never been Top 4 with the jury as well, Käärija's vocals or the songs composition and lyrics didn't bring him up there, it was his popularity.

(I agree with your overall comment though!)
 
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Loindici

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I've written a lot about this and I think that's enough, but there is one clear aftermath after all of this. Many, if not all, fans will not see Loreen; Sweden; and the juries the same again.
 
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esc87fan

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It was pretty apparent from Loreen's selection at Melfest that 2023 was hers to lose. Don't get me wrong, I like "Euphoria", but I never got the hype over "Tattoo" at all
 

Realest

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Btw.. Televote Results without ROTW:

1 Finland 366
2 Sweden 236
3 Norway 212
4 Ukraine 184
5 Italy 174 (+1)
6 Israel 173 (-1)
7 Croatia 109
8 Poland 81
9 Moldova 76
10 Cyprus 58 (+1)
11 Belgium 55 (+1)
12 Albania 53 (-2)
13 France 49 (+1)
14 Lithuania 46 (+1)
15 Slovenia 45 (+1)
16 Armenia 45 (-3)
17 Czechia 35
18 Switzerland 31
19 Estonia 22
20 Australia 21
21 Austria 16
22 Serbia 16
23 Portugal 16
24 Germany 15
25 UK 9
26 Spain 3

Combined Votes:

1 Sweden 576
2 Finland 516
3 Italy 350 (+1)
4 Israel 350 (-1)
5 Norway 264
6 Ukraine 238
7 Belgium 182
8 Estonia 168
9 Australia 151
10 Czechia 129
11 Lithuania 127
12 Cyprus 126
13 Croatia 120
14 Austria 120 (+1)
15 Armenia 114 (-1)
16 France 103
17 Spain 98
18 Moldova 96
19 Poland 93
20 Switzerland 92
21 Slovenia 78
22 Albania 70
23 Portugal 59
24 Serbia 30
25 UK 24
26 Germany 18

#getridofROTW
 
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Realest

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Gustaph would have been 3rd-5th in the Semis with Juries.
 

Sammy

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Btw.. Televote Results without ROTW:

1 Finland 366
2 Sweden 236
3 Norway 212
4 Ukraine 184
5 Italy 174 (+1)
6 Israel 173 (-1)
7 Croatia 109
8 Poland 81
9 Moldova 76
10 Cyprus 58 (+1)
11 Belgium 55 (+1)
12 Albania 53 (-2)
13 France 49 (+1)
14 Lithuania 46 (+1)
15 Slovenia 45 (+1)
16 Armenia 45 (-3)
17 Czechia 35
18 Switzerland 31
19 Estonia 22
20 Australia 21
21 Austria 16
22 Serbia 16
23 Portugal 16
24 Germany 15
25 UK 9
26 Spain 3

Combined Votes:

1 Sweden 576
2 Finland 516
3 Italy 350 (+1)
4 Israel 350 (-1)
5 Norway 264
6 Ukraine 238
7 Belgium 182
8 Estonia 168
9 Australia 151
10 Czechia 129
11 Lithuania 127
12 Cyprus 126
13 Croatia 120
14 Austria 120 (+1)
15 Armenia 114 (-1)
16 France 103
17 Spain 98
18 Moldova 96
19 Poland 93
20 Switzerland 92
21 Slovenia 78
22 Albania 70
23 Portugal 59
24 Serbia 30
25 UK 24
26 Germany 18

#getridofROTW
I knew why I was always against this ROTW thing. Hopefully Sweden does not introduche a ROTW-jury as well…
 

Uto

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So, obviously like everyone else there's a lot that's been going through my mind about the final and the results, and i've been holding off posting until i could be sure what exactly to say about it, and i'm gonna try to get it all summed up somewhat coherently here.

First off, like it seems perhaps a majority of Eurofans, i'm less than satisfied with the winner and how it all went. It's ironic because Loreen is one of their most favorite winners and overall acts, yet many if not most Eurofans are disappointed that she won, and it shouldn't be hard to see why. The song was IMO unexciting and sub-par for her, and the whole win felt pre--arranged, which much has been said about already.

I got a feeling one reason she recieved so many jury points is because they wanted the sensation of another two-time winner, rather than the qualities of the entry. Adding to the irony, Loreen herself didn't even seem to care very much about it, she wasn't excited to be declared winner at all, which could suggest she somehow knew she was pre-decided to win, or didn't care either way. Swedes are, to quote Donald Trump, "tired of winning" at this point, they act as if it's like the Hockey championships or something, where it's just "oh look, we won it again, whatever".

I think the lack of excitement is because the writing was always on the wall. The bookies had no doubts about what was going to go down, which in and of itself is very strange, because the bookies should not be able to know what is going to happen but they are exceptionally good at it now and with the amount of money involved... I'm not saying what I'm saying, but you know what I'm saying.

Now, when you have a winner who gets announced while the crowd is so obviously favoring another song, like, audibly at the venue, you know you didn't win nothing at all. Loreen knew it would be problematic, she knew she wasn't there with the song people loved etc. It's not her fault, but you just can't be properly enthusiastic then. And as for the Swedes being arrogant, that is something the rest of the world sees all the time, but it has never been a real issue. Others are worse.
Compare this to Finland, where people were wearing neon green in the streets, dressing up like Käärijä in the audience and shops put neon green things in their windows to celebrate Finland being a possible winner - it's a big damn thing for them, which should make anyone think they're so much more deserving than Sweden.

I'm actually surprised that reporting on this is so balanced this time, even in Swedish media, and not the "OMG you're all just jealous of our greatness" one could fear. Even casual ESC viewers - even in Sweden - are genuinely put off by what happened, particularly as Käärijä got quite popular here in Sweden too, and many though Loreen was good but overrated, and represented the old ESC/Melodifestivalen establishment which needs to be taught a lesson.

I don't think the cultural effect should really be taken into account when deliberating about these things. Ultimately the contest is its own thing. It is however disheartening to see the winning song come second behind something that has the hallmarks of corruption.
Which brings the next point: can anyone seriously say they're excited for another Swedish hosting? How is it gonna be any different than the two previous ones? We pretty much know what it's gonna be - same production team as MF, same outwardly self-mocking irony that's smug and ignorant towards the rest of Europe and what the contest means to them, sigh.

Another thing that puts me off is that Swedes, both in general and those within the MF/SVT industry, never show any gratitude when Sweden wins or does well. They don't thank the other countries for voting for them and appreciating their entries, they just act smug like it's because they're superior to all countries. How can so many non-ESC fans really say "Sweden has the best entries" when they even openly say that they don't listen to all the other entries each year?

I seriously think Sweden should consider turning down hosting for a third time in almost a decade, i haven't heard any serious calls from politicians etc. but i wouldn't be surprised if there are some soon. There's really nothing particular to achieve by hosting it at this point. The two previous hostings didn't even display much Swedish culture and i think the outcome in economy and related ways wasn't very positive, not enough to justify doing it again in such a short space of time.

Inconsequential. People are generally not excited for Sweden because it's shit pop that gets overrated by juries, but they manage to give us some good stuff once in a while, so it's not like Sweden needs to really look at itself and wonder what the hell it is doing. Issue is with how the juries are instructed and the fact that there is obviously corruption going on there, be it from the music industry, the bookies or the organization itself, be it with money, influence or whatever else. The results were anomalous, that is the fact we can all see.
Add to it, that my personal view of a Swedish hosting, like quite a few other Eurofans, is low because the two previous ones were two of the worst recent editions in several ways.

2013 had a strange, small stage, at least two of the most anger-inducing NQs in history, several disappointing results in the final, and several claims of outright sabotage of the intended stagings by the Swedish team. 2016 had another strange, awkward stage layout, several claims of sabotage and most notably, IMO the lowest quality of entries in any recent edition, and while that may not have had much to do with the host country, the pattern can't be ignored. For good reasons, i'm fearing "Sweden hosting" equals lousy songs and/or the best entries getting sabotaged by producers.

To return to the other subject, the previous time televotes picked another winner, in 2019, it didn't create any real noticable upset because Norway's Keiino wasn't a favorite with media or the public in the same way, and the system was so new that many didn't even realize what happened. As a Sámi person, i have a special reason for wanting them to win, but i would probably still have said they were the rightful winner, particularly as i hated Duncan Lawrence's entry, and it even only managed to make 3rd place with juries and 2nd with televotes, the weakest placements for a winner in history.

I don't really count 2016 as it wasn't as far off in points, and Jamala was the winner that televotes & juries could fairly agree upon. Frankly, what would people think now if Russia had actually won that year? I think most of Sergey's supporters would stay pretty quiet.

If you look at the data from 2014 onwards two editions stand alone head and shoulders above all others. In 2015 Heroes won as the juries tanked Grande Amore. As Grande Amore is sentimentalist horseshit people either love or hate the haters had their day and the whining faded. Then you mention 2019 but 2019 wasn't half as bad. Basically it was just Keiino losing out but we all know how that was not a jury pleaser while Arcade would be. Big load of cheese it was. People still complained, but it's not like Arcade was unbeatable due to jury influence, it was just that Arcade did well in both brackets and therefore won. Both do not come close to 2023. Juries decided Kaarija needed to basically post straight 12s to win. It was unreasonable.

As for the hosting in Sweden, well yeah Sweden doesn't really do the best hostings, but they are fine. I don't think people mind. I think it's far more of a problem that Sweden tries to present itself as some sort of utopia which it obviously isn't. It's just very weird. Look at the last three hosting gigs and you don't see these countries presenting themselves in such a way. Netherlands basically just talked about environmentalism, Italy had no political point to make and UK did a great job making it all about Ukraine while never actually getting into the politics overtly. We don't want an advert for your country.
Which brings us to another problem with the current system, minor compared to the results themselves, but it seems somehow wrong that the way the points are presented doesn't honor the televote winner enough. In 2019, it wasn't really clear who got the most televote points - this year, it was, because the difference was so big and the crowd even cheered for Käärijjä, but it doesn't seem right that the presentation obscures who actually got the most votes, as most viewers won't bother to look it up afterwards.

There's something inherently backwards about showing the jury votes from each country and then televotes in one big lump - you could say the opposite way would make more sense, but unfortunately it's easy to see why they chose this way. If they were to show the televotes first, it would give the impression of the jury votes "stealing" the win from the "rightful" winner that the people selected - which might be exactly what you think it is, but they don't want to encourage that kind of thinking, thus they chose a way that deliberately makes it hard to see who actually got most televote points.

You are right. The point has been made by others here and there, but generally the consensus is that it is exciting like this and as long as the juries and televoters sort of agree there is no real problem. However this time it was unreasonably deflating, because we all knew the show was over after about 10 juries had shown their votes.

However, let's say we turn it around and we had the jury votes last. I think the venue would have emptied. People would have switched off their TVs. The rage would have been unreasonable. I think we are looking at a symptom of a problem here, not at the actual problem.
It remains to see what the EBU will do about this and i'm certainly excited to find out, and either way it's good that the criticism of the juries have actually reached mainstream media this time, as it failed to do in 2019. I was never really a fan of juries when they were re-introduced in the first place, and i hope they consider some big reform to how they work now.

As stated before 2019 wasn't an actual issue. This was the juries functioning as they were designed to and it can sometimes happen that the televote does not win, but this should normally be when there is little consensus anyway and this happened in 2019. Nothing has ever come close to 2023. A reform is absolutely needed to prevent this scenario from ever happening again.
Just one more thing about the results this year, what the bloody hell were the juries thinking putting ISRAEL SECOND?!? Even televoters only put it 4th! I guess they just fell for the way she delivered those ear-piercing long notes so loud, clear and completely without any expression at all, before launching into a ridiculous dance exercise with no singing for the rest of the song? "Unicorn" exemplifies exactly the kind of song juries should punish for good reason, yet they put it higher than Australia, Spain and Armenia - can anyone explain how it fits their criteria?

This is the point many people have been making and this is the key issue in all of this. You mention 2019 a couple times. Who won juries? North Macedonia! So what I had expected this year was to see Sweden maybe winning juries, but probably it would go to either Spain or Estonia. If France was a bit better it should have been there, but they sort of flopped, but Armenia certainly did not and was more creative than Sweden if you ask me, vocals were great, the staging was simple but very effective, I don't see how Sweden would be able to make a large gap with Armenia for the juries but yeah no Sweden landslide and indeed Israel second which has the creative chops of a sentient rock. The juries were compromised. It is the only conclusion that can realistically be drawn. Even after it became totally clear that Kaarija had swept half of Europe into a frenzy the bookies moved from 44% to 39%. The bookies already knew what was going to happen.
And Italy, the jury 3rd place, was dated, generic second-rate nonsense, but i'm not as surprised about that one. Croatia deserved a little higher, they're real musicians with a lot of thought and creativity put into their song, and Germany at least shouldn't have been below Poland, UK (yikes!) and Serbia (love the guy, but he literally didn't sing) in the jury ratings either.

These are all a bit random as examples. They are songs that are rather polarized, so a lot depends on who votes what and we should expect a lot of randomness down the ladder. Germany got robbed obviously.
Overall though, besides the bitterness, a pretty good show, they handled the "dual country hosting" pretty well, great stage design, good stagings, some disappointing performances, some i knew were gonna be bad, and not all that surprising qualifiers - i really wanted Azerbaijan and Romania in though - i can see why Georgia fans are pissed, but i wasn't that surprised, and it was televotes after all.

I just hope everyone can learn the right lessons from this edition, but given that the next host is Sweden, it doesn't seem so likely...

Thought UK hosting wasn't stellar, but it was very good. Poor sound quality in the semis were a negative, also I was not fond of the stage at all as it felt cramped often and didn't really lend itself for a lot of creative choices in how to use the stage. There have been much better stages like the cube in Copenhagen and the Rotterdam stage and I feel like they didn't really help the delegations much with their staging (Rotterdam in particular obviously put a lot of effort into this). They absolutely nailed the difficult filler content though. So often the filler stuff is just boring, but UK had that down perfectly. I can't remember the last time it was A ) entertaining, B ) never awkward and C ) seemingly effortless.
 

Fluke

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As an old saying goes, "Hate to say i told you so".

We already know of the controversial changes that's been announced so far. The voting will be open from the start of each show, whatever noticable change that will make is hard to predict. And the Big 5 and host acts will actually perform live in the semis, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but it might confuse some viewers, and it's only going to work if the amount of participating countries doesn't go up again.

But why is that each time Sweden hosts, there's some major changes to the contest, and so far, they pretty much haven't been for the better?!?

I got a really strong feeling that there will be something to really upset Eurofans and delegations this year. Either it's a NQ or poor final result of a highly beloved entry because of a technical mishap, or something else that seems like outright sabotage of some certain entry's result. Maybe one or more of the Big 5 entries (France or Italy perhaps?) won't really be properly prepared to perform in the semi, the sound or something about the staging will go wrong and they'll blame it for hurting their results.

As i said in the first post, Sweden hosting just seems to spell trouble, and we already know there will be some changes. It's just hard not to see it coming.
 

I bims

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Maybe one or more of the Big 5 entries (France or Italy perhaps?) won't really be properly prepared to perform in the semi, the sound or something about the staging will go wrong and they'll blame it for hurting their results.
I don't know why people would be confused that a Big 5 country performs in the semi? It's not algebra, it's a pretty simple concept. And most casual audiences that don't know the Eurovision rules that well don't even watch the Semis.

And why would the Big 5 not be prepared to perform in a semi? They will have rehearsals like everyone else beforehand and if they flop it's only on them, they got treated like everyone else aside from people voting for them. And how the semi performance goes doesn't matter one bit for their placement in the Grand Final. The vast majority of voters will only watch that one performance. And the jury bases their judgement on a seperate performance too.
 

Fluke

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(Stands still, breathing deeply for 25 seconds)

That... was.... the worst three days in all of Eurovision history.

I wish i had been wrong. What is it about "Sweden hosting" that just spells "shitstorm" ?

It started pretty good, it really did.

Apart from Israel's televote score (which i will make a separate thread about) there was of course, their backstage harrassment which succeeded in getting Netherlands banned, but that wasn't all. They tried the same thing against at least two others, Switzerland and Ireland, both likely contenders. Kinda wonder what Croatia, Ukraine, France etc. did or didn't do to avoid the same provocations, maybe it just wasn't reported, or they failed to provoke any incidents with those.

But while that can't be blamed entirely on the Swedish hosts, they could have handled it better, and Martin Österdahl being Swedish doesn't exactly help to disprove any bias (towards supporting and defending the decisions of the Swedish hosts) in the whole thing. Sweden could easily have banned Israel, against the wishes of the EBU, once it was clear how political their participation was, but they chose not to, for whatever reasons.

Either way, let's try and sum it up about some other things regarding this edition.

First off, the novelty of the DTF countries actually performing in the semis. I don't think it was necessarily a bad idea or done wrong, though i don't get why they had to be randomly inserted between the actual competing entries, which probably confused some viewers, instead of just given their own section at the end. I can see this practice continuing for now, but if a lot more countries were to return to the contest, this part will probably be taken out again.

But i noticed it made a significant difference in how the final felt beforehand. There's always been a unknown factor, a surprise remaining in that we hadn't seen the DTF entries before. But now when semi 2 was over, we had seen all entries perform live in full, and all that remained was choosing one of them.

While we've been able to watch the entire rehearsal performances for a couple of years now, we haven't really known how the public will react to them, or how they will "feel" in the context of the other entries. But now we did. There was no "joker", no surprise left.

I'm not even sure if that's good or bad, in a way it makes the contest more fair. But it certainly changed the feeling of leading up to the final, which just seemed less important than in previous editions. It was just a repeat of what we had already seen, except for the voting itself.

Two minor things i didn't like was that the recaps, especially in the final, were ridiculously short, you could barely recall what the songs were like from hearing those short bits, and i also disliked how the songs started immediately after the postcards ended.

That silence before the song starts is important, both to create a kind of dramatic expectation, and because casual viewers may barely notice when the actual competing entries begin, without that silent moment.

The stagings overall were so-so. Technically without mishaps, and very expensive and spectacular looking for sure, but they also felt a bit cold and empty with most stagings just appearing to be surrounded by a empty black void, which really isn't suitable for a lot of entries, and they were also a bit obsessive with using light effects at the expense of letting the performers fill the frame, and creating an appropriate vibe for each song.

The "plus-shaped" stage was a novelty that faded as soon as we had seen what it looked like. Almost none of the entries actually made any special use of it, except Greece, Georgia and maybe some more. I liked the idea of having audience almost all the way around it, but a circular or octagonal stage would have worked just as well.

I was going to make a big thing about how the interval acts and presentation felt small and eventless for how expensive it supposedly was, but then i came to realize a lot of artists pulled out of appearing at the last moment, which is why they had to fill it in. But the results were, if predictably, disappointing.

I can't be the only one who's sick of seeing random former Eurovision acts (who aren't even from the host country) being called in to perform medleys of songs that aren't even their own, instead of local artists from the host country being given greater exposure, but with that explanation in mind, it's more understandable and was handled quite professionally, but it's not going to history as one of the better shows for sure.

Many have also complained that there wasn't enough shown of, or about Sweden in any way. The whole show seemed to be entirely about what's inside the arena, which might as well have taken place anywhere. Even if there were special reasons for it being cut down this year, it's still sad that in THREE recent hostings, they've barely shown any Swedish culture outside of the overplayed ESC entries everyone already knows.

Though for once there was actually SOME Swedish spoken at moments, something Sweden refrained from in the previous hostings, which really disappointed me and many others. I find it important to note that the Herreys performance is actually the only time we've heard a song in Swedish in a ESC show since Finland's 2012 entry, and before 1999.

So finally, the result. The right song and country won, of course, which was a big relief to me, but i wish it could have done even stronger, as the relatively low televote score (though in sheer points, it actually isn't all that low compared to other recent winners) makes it seem illegitimate to those who want it to be.

I was sort of supportive of Croatia's entry when it was first revealed, but i think Croatia would have been a terrible host, both in terms of practicalities for everyone involved, and the show - it would have been cheap, generic and they don't have any real merits in Eurovision history, being the weakest ex-Yugoslavian country tied with Macedonia IMO.

My attitude isn't improved by the bitchy Eurofans who wanted it to win just because Croatia is a cheap country to go to while Switzerland is notoriously expensive, an entirely selfish reason that has nothing to do with who deserved to win.

Then there's quality, originality, authenticity? A late 00s-style ESC novelty rock performance with tuneless shouting vocals? No, Switzerland was in every way the one and only real winner.

Funny enough, i'm sure Israel being out would actually have benefitted Switzerland's televote more, as they were below Israel in most countries.

Either way, i'm really looking forward to a better, more functioning ESC without unpleasant incidents and other unwanted things starting with "I". But.... yeah, "Sweden hosting" shouldn't be words anyone wants to hear for a long time.
 

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Televote without ROTW:

01 :hr: 329
02 :il: 311
03 :ua: 297
04 :fr: 225
05 :ch: 220
06 :ie: 129
07 :it: 103
08 :gr: 82
09 :am: 77
10 :lt: 58
11 :se: 49
12 :cy: 44
13 :ee: 33
14 :rs: 32
15 :fi: 31
16 :lv: 28
17 :ge: 19 (+1)
18 :de: 18 (+1)
19 :lu: 16 (-2)
20 :pt: 13
21 :sl: 12
22 :es: 11
23 :at: 05
24 :no: 04
25 :uk: 00

Combinded Vote:

01 :ch: 585
02 :hr: 539
03 :ua: 443
04 :fr: 443
05 :il: 363
06 :ie: 272
07 :it: 267
08 :am: 178
09 :se: 174
10 :pt: 152
11 :gr: 123
12 :de: 117
13 :lu: 99
14 :lt: 90
15 :cy: 78
16 :lv: 64
17 :rs: 54
18 :uk: 46
19 :fi: 38
20 :ee: 37
21 :ge: 34
22 :es: 30
23 :sl: 27
24 :at: 24
25 :no: 16

No Changes in the Final this Time.
 
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