personally I dont think the producers draw is a good idea..
I think 2016 proved that it's a bad idea, there were songs put together that were too similar.. also songs written by Swedes were favoured in the draw this year. I think having a random draw in January (like the good old days) is the best way
I think 2016 proved that it's a bad idea, there were songs put together that were too similar.. also songs written by Swedes were favoured in the draw this year. I think having a random draw in January (like the good old days) is the best way
A-lister
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The producers' draw gotta go, it's apparent they pick their "favs" and some countries get good draws etc. I think random draw is the only way to go if you want a fair contest which is legitimate.
However I do understand the point of having a diverse running order style-wise in order to make a good show, but this could be dealt with having "genre pots" or "tempo pots", similar in the style of "country pots" used to allocate entries into the semis. I guess "tempo pots" could be the easiest, simply divide songs into ballad, midtempo and uptempo pots and then divide the shows into 4 parts and allocate them from the pots randomly. Then we will end up with a mixed show but without the biasism and favoritism.
However I do understand the point of having a diverse running order style-wise in order to make a good show, but this could be dealt with having "genre pots" or "tempo pots", similar in the style of "country pots" used to allocate entries into the semis. I guess "tempo pots" could be the easiest, simply divide songs into ballad, midtempo and uptempo pots and then divide the shows into 4 parts and allocate them from the pots randomly. Then we will end up with a mixed show but without the biasism and favoritism.
Alaska49
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i used to be on the side of the producers draw because i will never forget how dreadful the first half of 2010 was, but like.... i predicted half of the running order of the final this time. i don't even think they make much of a difference but the mere fact we know what the producers will do with the running order and how it potentially helps certain entries is a bit insulting. i like the tempo pots idea!
ScarlettGirl
Member
I feel like the draw is more fair if it is the contestants themselves who draws a number. It has worked fine before, why not now? 
Producers didn't do a good job at mixing entries this year:
Poland/Switzerland/Israel in semi 2
In the final: Azerbaijan/Hungary which sounded similar, Russia/Spain like really?! :? Latvia/Ukraine were two moody songs that should have been separated.
Overall, I don't agree with the non-random draw and the fact that most voted songs and favourites should always have the best places while the entries that struggled to qualify or aren't popular won't stand a second chance because they'll be used as fillers.
And I don't like that they can choose who they want to throw under the bus to open the final, as I said, there have been patterns and the same countries tend to be given the same positions (Romania last twice in a row, Latvia first to perform twice in 4 years, Macedonia performing 8th twice in a row in the semi, Spain performing 19th twice in 3 three years, Georgia performing 23rd twice in a row, Australia and the latest starting positions everytime, and so on)
Poland/Switzerland/Israel in semi 2
In the final: Azerbaijan/Hungary which sounded similar, Russia/Spain like really?! :? Latvia/Ukraine were two moody songs that should have been separated.
Overall, I don't agree with the non-random draw and the fact that most voted songs and favourites should always have the best places while the entries that struggled to qualify or aren't popular won't stand a second chance because they'll be used as fillers.
And I don't like that they can choose who they want to throw under the bus to open the final, as I said, there have been patterns and the same countries tend to be given the same positions (Romania last twice in a row, Latvia first to perform twice in 4 years, Macedonia performing 8th twice in a row in the semi, Spain performing 19th twice in 3 three years, Georgia performing 23rd twice in a row, Australia and the latest starting positions everytime, and so on)
The draw is TOO important for the final result so we really need the RANDOM draw. If someone wants to watch Eurovision he/she will watch it even with 6 ballads one after another. Also, 2015 has been an edition with a final full of slow songs but this didn't affect the ratings.
I also don't see the point in giving the favourites the best spots in the running order. ALL countries want to win, saying that they should be in the best positions because "they battle for the victory" is an invalid argument. The only way it can be tackled and giving everyone a chance to win is by a random draw.
If they really want to avoid similar songs to be clustered in the running order, they should make a running order and THEN draw which country is the first to perform. It's not that hard.
If they really want to avoid similar songs to be clustered in the running order, they should make a running order and THEN draw which country is the first to perform. It's not that hard.
Schlagerman1
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I have heard so many have had this opionion about this year, but i gotta say, that if it was some year that it actually was a slightly better draw, then it was this year.
Poland/Switzerland/Israel in semi 2
We have to think that first half of semi 2 was FILLED with ballads, so that it came three in a row was doomed to happen. I think they did rather the best they could, having Poland as number two, being "a classic rockballad" after the more experimental pop song from Latvia. Having Poland and Israel close to each other, both singers taking advantage of androgynous look was a surprise for me, but they devided them simple with putting Switzerland, being a woman and having a more pop/schlagerballad between the rockballad and the naked soulballad. Also, knowing how Björkman does it in MF, he also works with putting different colourschemes, so by having red at number 2, blue at number 3 and black at number 4, worked nice in that matter as well.
I don't understand how Azerbaijan and Hungary sound similar? An uptempo song was really NEEDED after Czech Republic and Netherlands, so Azerbaijan was the ideal one to put as number 4 in the final. Also, since we got so many ballads in the first part of the final as well, 9 rather slow songs, A few ballads after Azerbaijan was needed. I think also that the swedish producers tried to put so that two ballads sung by the same gender doesn't happen next to each other, so they put male, female, male as 5-7 in the running order. Sure they could have switch Hovi with Freddie for 5 and 7, but I think that Israel might fit better next to Bulgaria, then Hungary is. I do though believe that just the 4-5 draw was the once that got the decided in the very end of the makings of the running order.
About Russia/Spain, we have to look what came before and what came after. 2nd part of the final has a lot of moody and dark songs, even if they are more uptempo. Cyprus, Serbia, somewhat Lithuania and Croatia all had rather moody performances in their own way and then comes Russia that is also black. A change is really needed after Russia, perhaps something happy and not assiociated with that song at all needs to come after, then Spain is the best solution. For looking after Spain comes then Latvia, Ukraine and somewhat Malta, also moody and dark stage shows, which Spain, despite being black as well, was a fresh breather between all the moody ones.
And sure is Latvia and Ukaine both moody, but they aren't that similar at all, especially nothing is similar to Ukraine this year. The only draw I could argue about this year is perhaps Ukraine/Malta in the final, where I wonder why the only song that could PERHAPS be assiociated with Ukraine happens to go afterwards, that was a little weird for me.
Nevertheless, my stand point in this is the same as most of you, I don't like it that much either, it is troublesome to see how they CAN decide the draw to make one of THEIR faves win. Though, I can't help to find it interesting though, and as long as it stays, I will be more fascinated by it.
Personally, I think the grand final in 2014 had the best order, but one has to take into account music genres were more varied and the uptempo/ballad ratio was probably more balanced in both halves.
I didn't know about colourschemes and gender, I just considered that on a purely musical aspect. Instead of having three ballads in a row (preceded by an opener who's not really far from being one too), they could have spaced out the uptempo acts more evenly. Lithuania, Ireland and - to a lesser extent - Belarus could have separated a couple of ballads as follows: Latvia / Poland / Belarus / Switzerland / Israel / Ireland / Serbia / FYR Macedonia / Lithuania / Australia. But that's just my feeling.
I get what you mean. To my ears at least, Hungary didn't seem different enough from Azerbaijan arrangements-wise, they share the same strong-beat ballad category and I got the feeling neither stood out for that matter. I would have made some changes like: Belgium / Czech Republic / Hungary / Netherlands / Azerbaijan... Hungary stands out after the quiet Czech entry, Douwe stands out because it's country music, and then we get back to contemporary music with Miracle.
I don't know, the only thing that got me confused was that "Russia/Spain" thing, one couldn't expect Spain to have an optimal impact after making it perform after the upbeat and visual Russian act. Had just they switched Spain and Latvia, I wouldn't have complained because it would have complied with the pattern of uptempo songs put on even slots (Cyprus = 14th, Lithuania = 16th, Russia = 18th, Spain = 20th?). They should have switched Malta and Georgia so that we would have separated them all imo: Cyprus / Serbia / Lithuania / Croatia / Russia / Latvia / Spain / Ukraine / Georgia / Malta / Austria / UK / Armenia.
OMG huge preach!
I don't get this either, I mean: the organizers think you're not worth much = you get a bad slot in the semi = you are more likely to get a poor result = you got a poor result, so you get a bad slot in the grand final. The contrary that happens for favourites is also not fair at all, especially the 13th place that has become a reserved slot for pets that were "unlucky" enough to pick the first half.
P.S.: sorry for double-posting.
cooliohulio
Member
We definitely need the random draw. I feel like no matter who decides the order, they will always want their favorites in a good spot, even if it's subconsciously.
GianlucaTomoe
Banned
The running order determined by the producers is great. Finally the flow of the shows have an actual sense, with different songs put after each other. In 2012, when there still was the random draw and similar songs were one after the other, it was painful to watch.
ag89
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Producer's draw.
Running order cannot ruin good entry. Do you really believe France would have done better, let's say in 2013 and 2015, if France had higher number??
Or bunch of other countries.
Sometimes, but only sometimes, draw can hurt, let's say, very calm ballads if they perform 1st or close to that, but beside that I just don't understand that drama about running order.
Do you think any of top 3 countries throughout the years would have had different results if the running order was different? No way.
Running order cannot ruin good entry. Do you really believe France would have done better, let's say in 2013 and 2015, if France had higher number??
Or bunch of other countries.
Sometimes, but only sometimes, draw can hurt, let's say, very calm ballads if they perform 1st or close to that, but beside that I just don't understand that drama about running order.
Do you think any of top 3 countries throughout the years would have had different results if the running order was different? No way.
[MENTION=14756]ag89[/MENTION]
If the running order does not ruin anyone's chances, then why do we need producers to give late starting positions to favourites? Let's give next year's hot favourite the 2nd slot, it would be refreshing to see someone who performed early win since so far 10th place is the earliest slot given to a contender for victory.
Let's pretend numbers truly don't matter, don't you think your chances of standing out partly depend on who performs right before and after you? For instance, performing after a favourite is usually not a good sign.
Random draw is fairer to me because no one decides who performs after who, everyone gets the same chance of opening or closing the show, performing before or after a break or being given the 13th spot in the grand final (whether it be Australia or San Marino).
If the running order does not ruin anyone's chances, then why do we need producers to give late starting positions to favourites? Let's give next year's hot favourite the 2nd slot, it would be refreshing to see someone who performed early win since so far 10th place is the earliest slot given to a contender for victory.
Let's pretend numbers truly don't matter, don't you think your chances of standing out partly depend on who performs right before and after you? For instance, performing after a favourite is usually not a good sign.
Random draw is fairer to me because no one decides who performs after who, everyone gets the same chance of opening or closing the show, performing before or after a break or being given the 13th spot in the grand final (whether it be Australia or San Marino).