That One Thread About Juries We Have Every Year

[CC92]

Who really cares about the bottom? I don't care my country was 22nd or 18th or whatever.
It's almost impossible to create a system that will 100% fairly decide the results from first to last place. Desperate tries to invent such a thing will make the voting process weirder and less understandable for viewers and the contest is for viewers and not for jury-who sometimes even made up their rankings to have one

I do not agree on the first part. As shown, the range of shifted places is way bigger and it does make a difference to most viewers if their own country/favourite songs ends up in a comfortable midtable position or dead last with zero points. Especially if this happens year after year. Austr(al)ians would not say: "Alright, we rank 14 (13) positions lower than a country which has the same (an even lower) amount of points as (than) us subtracting diaspora grants. But that's all fine and dandy given that the difference in points is not really great and in case we have a competitive entry such things will not interfere anyhow." They would be more likely to get bitter and impugn the legitimacy of all results, as it already happened not so long ago. I'm shuffling the reactions of different groups (the broadcaster, the media and general people) swiftly together but you get the point. This year it was hard for them too complain because both saw themselves profoundly 'overrated' (in relation to actual popularity) by the jury but under a system which gives all power to viewers at home (which I think is desirable) it would (again) court a lot of resentment in the long run.
My idea is to widen the number of countries that receive points in each national vote. I still prefer a positive scheme to a complete ranking one. One could even keep the tradition of the 'douze' by adding 9 and 11, and start counting with half points. E.g. 15th = ½; 14th = 1; 13th = 1½; 12th = 2; 11th = 2½; 10th = 3; 9th = 4; ...; 4th = 9, 3rd = 10; 2nd = 11; 1st = 12. It would also be an overdue adjustment to the gone up attendance at the finals of the contest. Moreover you are right that jurors should not be forced to rank more entries than their panel can eventually translate into points.

 

[Realest]

The best way to solve this problem is to reduce the Number of Finalists to 24-25 again (the easiest Solution would be to get rid of and ) then the midfield Places would reflect the Whole Audiences Opinion a bit more.

 

[blue00eyes]

The best way to solve this problem is to reduce the Number of Finalists to 24-25 again (the easiest Solution would be to get rid of and ) then the midfield Places would reflect the Whole Audiences Opinion a bit more.

Sorry to quote an old post but
It would be great to have the final with just 15 countries. We should also get rid of big5 because their entries are often weaker than some entries that failed to qualify.
Less finalists means better quality, the final wouldn't be so long.. it would also reduce friendly voting.

 

[Realest]

Sorry to quote an old post but
It would be great to have the final with just 15 countries. We should also get rid of big5 because their entries are often weaker than some entries that failed to qualify.
Less finalists means better quality, the final wouldn't be so long.. it would also reduce friendly voting.

I think 15 is a bit too low, but 22-24 would be good enough. But this wouldnt generate much money for the EBU. The same goes with the Big5-Rule unfortunately.

 

[blue00eyes]

I think 15 is a bit too low, but 22-24 would be good enough. But this wouldnt generate much money for the EBU. The same goes with the Big5-Rule unfortunately.

Money
Big5 rule is stupid do we really need abominations like Spain 2017 in the final?

 

[Realest]

Money
Big5 rule is stupid do we really need abominations like Spain 2017 in the final?

Im also against the Big5 Rule, but I dont know any alternatives. And yes, from EBU-View Money is more important than the musicquality in the Final unfortunately.

 

[blue00eyes]

Mary Hammond's results:

1st semifinal 15th place
Grand Final 1st place

 

[JonnyWest]

RTP bought them votes YASS

 

[blue00eyes]

Don't get me wrong, I wanted to point out our beloved juries' "Professionalism".
Rating someone 15th in the semi means that the entry is one of the worst in the whole contest... and then it ends up 1st in the Grand Final... howw

 

[tuorem]

Don't get me wrong, I wanted to point out our beloved juries' "Professionalism".
Rating someone 15th in the semi means that the entry is one of the worst in the whole contest... and then it ends up 1st in the Grand Final... howw

Maybe her ranking got reversed like that Danish woman in 2016 who ended up giving big points to the acts she disliked

 

[Realest]

Maybe her ranking got reversed like that Danish woman in 2016 who ended up giving big points to the acts she disliked

Im still so annoyed by her stupid mistake. The 2016 voting could have been much more exciting if Ukraine overtook Australia only by 9 instead of 23 Points. And in the End Russia would have needed "only" 380 Points to overtake Australia and 389 for Ukraine.

 

[blue00eyes]

Maybe her ranking got reversed like that Danish woman in 2016 who ended up giving big points to the acts she disliked

It's even more interesting then If her ranking was really upside down in the semi, Belgium won her semi voting, but later in the final she gave it 15th place; Moldova for example would be last in her semi ranking but she gave them 4th place in the Grand Final two days later lol

 

[Realest]

11th Azerbaijan: 37 out of 41* televoting points (90.2%) come from friendly and diaspora-housing countries
12th Poland: 41 out of 41 (100%))
13th Belarus: 30 out of 33 (90.9%)
14th Cyprus: 29 out of 32 (90.6%)
15th Norway: 16 out of 29 (55.2%)
16th Greece: 21 out of 29 (72.4%)
17th Ukraine: 24 out of 24 (100%)
18th Armenia: 21 out of 21 (100%)
19th Holland: 11 out 15 (73.3%)
20th United Kingdom: 11 out of 12 (91.7%)
21st Denmark: 0 out of 8 (0%) (but 100% local fame)
22nd Israel: 3 out of 5 points (60%)
23rd Spain: 5 out of 5 points (100%)
24th Germany: 3 out of 3 points (100%)
25th Australia: 0 out of 2 points (0%)
26th Austria: got no points

Where do you know that Montenegro is a Diasporahousing-Country from Azerbaijan?
And I also cant understand why every other Country than Armenia and Greece should be a friend of Cyprus considering that They got their only 8 Points in 2015 from Greece.

 

[scratchthat2009]

All I know is, the new system is so much better than the old one. It's much more fair and even.

And, Norma John would've qualified with televote only..

 

[CC92]

Where do you know that Montenegro is a Diasporahousing-Country from Azerbaijan?
And I also cant understand why every other Country than Armenia and Greece should be a friend of Cyprus considering that They got their only 8 Points in 2015 from Greece.

It is common knowledge that Azerbaijan hijacks the televotings of small countries/countries with poor viewing figures. E.g. in 2015 came last in the Serbian public vote as opposed to third (behind ) in Montenegro. Last year they placed 24th in the F.Y.R. Macedonia, 21st in Serbia and last in Slovenia versus third (behind ) in Bosnia and Herzegovina and fourth in Montenegro. Czechia and Malta are best known to have this problem as well. Though not every year the same countries are being affected.
(South) Cypriots are seen as part of the Greek nation what gets them the same allies as Greece by default. The difference being that bigging up the main country is more attractive (and so used to be the entries until very recently) which is why the support generally turns out less powerful.

PS: When I wrote the post I did not have in mind that UK territory borders Spain to the south. The United Kingdom should be on 100% too then.

 

[Realest]

It is common knowledge that Azerbaijan hijacks the televotings of small countries/countries with poor viewing figures. E.g. in 2015 came last in the Serbian public vote as opposed to third (behind ) in Montenegro. Last year they placed 24th in the F.Y.R. Macedonia, 21st in Serbia and last in Slovenia versus third (behind ) in Bosnia and Herzegovina and fourth in Montenegro. Czechia and Malta are best known to have this problem as well. Though not every year the same countries are being affected.
(South) Cypriots are seen as part of the Greek nation what gets the same allies as Greece by default. The difference being that bigging up the main country is more attractive (and so used to be the entries until very recently) which is why the support generally turns out less powerful.

PS: When I wrote the post I did not have in mind that UK territory borders Spain to the south. The United Kingdom should be on 100% too then.

Yes, that was my only Thought, that manipulates the Televotes in Montenegro because there is no other way they could beat Il Volo, Mans and Polina back then. And since manipulating is too risky, is a good alternative. But I think is really a diasporahousing country, since was Top2 back then in 08-09 when they (probably) didnt manipulate the Televoting.

Regarding Cyprus.. I know that Cyprus was f.e. 25th in , 22nd in , 22nd in etc.. in 2015 and also 2010 Cyprus only Televotes came from and (welch citizenship).
I wouldnt call those countries allies. Its like Turkey-Azerbaijan. In the last 4 years Azerbaijan was 25th, 22nd, 23rd and 23rd (worst average any country got from us) in our Televoting despite many Turks living here.

 

[CC92]

Yes, that was my only Thought, that manipulates the Televotes in Montenegro because there is no other way they could beat Il Volo, Mans and Polina back then. And since manipulating is too risky, is a good alternative. But I think is really a diasporahousing country, since was Top2 back then in 08-09 when they (probably) didnt manipulate the Televoting.

Regarding Cyprus.. I know that Cyprus was f.e. 25th in , 22nd in , 22nd in etc.. in 2015 and also 2010 Cyprus only Televotes came from and (welch citizenship).
I wouldnt call those countries allies. Its like Turkey-Azerbaijan. In the last 4 years Azerbaijan was 25th, 22nd, 23rd and 23rd (worst average any country got from us) in our Televoting despite many Turks living here.

I could not find a source for any estimable Azerbaijani diaspora in the Czech Republic nor am I aware that these two nations were tied in some way. But I might be proven wrong in this.

Diaspora groups that live in distant places care first and foremost about supporting their country of origin. Whenever there is, however, a friendly relationship between two nations (peoples) that has evolved over centuries and is primilary based on cultural similiarities the specific political entity (country) plays a less important role in voting behaviour apparently. E.g. in those years for which we hold the data (2005-2008, 2016-2017) Bulgaria awarded Cyprus 6.2 televoting points on average — more than five times as much as they received overall. And the fact that the latter had been a British colony for more than 80 years probably helps explain why it scores comparatively consistently in the United Kingdom but not in other Western European countries housing sizeable Greek diasporas. Albanian voting is very much a thing of its own, by the way.

 

[Realest]

I could not find a source for any estimable Azerbaijani diaspora in the Czech Republic nor am I aware that these two nations were tied in some way. But I might be proven wrong in this.

Actually, I also didnt find anything about this.
So the fact that the czech Televoter gave 10, 12, 7, 6,10 Points in 2008,2009 and 2015-2017 without Diaspora or cultural similarities, means that they might have cheated there as well from the beginning, since hasnt been a Favourite except 2009.

 

[Realest]

Yurii Rybchynskyi ():

#18 Spain
#25 Italy
#26 Bulgaria

Illaria ():

#23 Italy
#24 Poland
#25 Bulgaria

Afak Maikova ():

#10 Spain
#20 Bulgaria
#24 Sweden (always thought Azeris Like Swedish Music)

Magdalena Tul ( 2011):

#25 Italy

Antoine Gouiffes - Yan ()

#3 Germany

Mirian Kukulashvil ()

#4 Germany

 

[Realest]

11th Azerbaijan: 37 out of 41* televoting points (90.2%) come from friendly and diaspora-housing countries
12th Poland: 41 out of 41 (100%))
13th Belarus: 30 out of 33 (90.9%)
14th Cyprus: 29 out of 32 (90.6%)
15th Norway: 16 out of 29 (55.2%)
16th Greece: 21 out of 29 (72.4%)
17th Ukraine: 24 out of 24 (100%)
18th Armenia: 21 out of 21 (100%)
19th Holland: 11 out 15 (73.3%)
20th United Kingdom: 11 out of 12 (91.7%)
21st Denmark: 0 out of 8 (0%) (but 100% local fame)
22nd Israel: 3 out of 5 points (60%)
23rd Spain: 5 out of 5 points (100%)
24th Germany: 3 out of 3 points (100%)
25th Australia: 0 out of 2 points (0%)
26th Austria: got no points

This year the Points were less onesided distributed:

11th: 22/84 Points came from friendly Countries (26.19%) or 30/84 if we count too because of local Fame (35.71%)
12th: 68/75 Points (90.66%)
13th: 0/71 Points (0%)
14th: 35/66 Points (53.03%)
15th: 25/64 Points (39.06%)
16th: 10/62 Points (16.13%)
17th: 5/59 Points (8.47%)
18th: 53/58 Points (91.38%)
19th 10/32 Points (31.25%)
20th: 17/25 Points (68%)
21th: 19/23 Points (82.61%)
22th: 23/23 Points (100%)
23th: 12/21 Points (57.14%)
24th: 12/18 Points (66.66%)
25th: 18/18 Points (100%)
26th: 0/9 Points (0%)