Televoting Results.

[GWTW1939]

It doesn't matter how you try and spin it, a 80+ televoting win should never be allowed to be made into a 70+ 3rd place loss, period!

The current system was clearly designed to make things easier for the EBU to manipulate in favor of their chosen ones while hurt others. If it had been the previous system from 09-12 and the margin of loss was smaller then we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

 

[Genesis]

I heard the Italian song couple of times before the contest, but it never did anything for me. It was an "meh, its ok song". However, when Il Volo hit the stage I got shivers all over my body. No surprise, that they've won the televoting; they were simply the best that night!
Swedish song was good, but it doesn't have that winner quality in my opinion. Biggest shock of the night was the fact, that juries put Italy "so low" on the scoreboard. Low enough, to make them a "no-winner". Reason? Unknown for me :|
So what should have been done? Such a power should be taken away from the juries, leaving them with 40% vote power. Reintroduction of the jury was a good move, but in current condition its just a plain ridiculousness. So let's let them be able to say something, but the final word should be given to us, viewers, who spend money on the actual votes!

 

[GWTW1939]

Officially speaking the system is 50/50 but the way its set up its clearly more 60/40 in favor of the jury....so its not really 50/50 despite what they tell you

 

[Morty]

Two songs with more than 50% televoting support, didnt receive anything. Every vote counts?

I'm not saying we should go to 100% televote, but this clearly shows that the current system is very unfair. When two songs are this popular in the televote, they should at least get some points. Imo, the Italian points based on this should have been:
12. Sweden (3+10=13)
10. Albania (12+0=12, higher televote than Norway)
8. Norway (0+12=12)
7. Russia (8+3=11)
6. Romania (10+0=10, higher televote than Israel)
5. Israel (5+5=10)
4. Belgium (1+7=8, higher televote than Australia)
3. Australia (0+8=8)
2. Poland (7+0=7)
1. Serbia (6+0=6, higher televote than Latvia)

Latvia (0+6=6) - just missing out

Still in my opinion, but I think this would have been true 50/50, altho I could accept if the juries were given the advantage instead of televote in case of a draw. It would still be much more fair than the current system.

 

[Chorizo]

I'm not saying we should go to 100% televote, but this clearly shows that the current system is very unfair. When two songs are this popular in the televote, they should at least get some points. Imo, the Italian points based on this should have been:
12. Sweden (3+10=13)
10. Albania (12+0=12, higher televote than Norway)
8. Norway (0+12=12)
7. Russia (8+3=11)
6. Romania (10+0=10, higher televote than Israel)
5. Israel (5+5=10)
4. Belgium (1+7=8, higher televote than Australia)
3. Australia (0+8=8)
2. Poland (7+0=7)
1. Serbia (6+0=6, higher televote than Latvia)

Latvia (0+6=6) - just missing out

Still in my opinion, but I think this would have been true 50/50, altho I could accept if the juries were given the advantage instead of televote in case of a draw. It would still be much more fair than the current system.

In the televote, Albania won because Elhaida was known from The Voice. Romania came second because of the large Romanian diaspora in Italy.
These are not good reasons to be awarded points. The jury was right in placing them lower.

 

[GWTW1939]

In the televote, Albania won because Elhaida was known from The Voice. Romania came second because of the large Romanian diaspora in Italy.
These are not good reasons to be awarded points. The jury was right in placing them lower.

But maybe the songs didn't deserve such a low ranking Elhaida apparently gave her best vocal performance of that week and Voltaj is always vocally solid.

These days it feels like many juries are voting a song to the bottom purposely based on diaspora and not the quality of the song. Which feels pretty wrong to me

 

[Morty]

In the televote, Albania won because Elhaida was known from The Voice. Romania came second because of the large Romanian diaspora in Italy.
These are not good reasons to be awarded points. The jury was right in placing them lower.

I'm not saying the jury did wrong putting Albania and Romania low on their ranking, that's not really that relevant to me here. I'm saying the total outcome of this (televote+jury) is wrong.

 

[carriethunderwood]

But maybe the songs didn't deserve such a low ranking Elhaida apparently gave her best vocal performance of that week and Voltaj is always vocally solid.

This kind of misses the point though. Whilst Voltaj were vocally solid, they were guaranteed 20%+ of the Italian vote regardless of how well they performed, and to me that is grossly unfair.

People often respond to this by saying "Well people in diaspora-heavy countries should vote more to counteract the diaspora voting", yet voting more is meaningless because 1 in 5 non-diaspora votes will very rarely, if ever, all flock to the same song. Not to mention, the UK and Germany, for example, probably have the highest voting figures out of all the participants due to their decent viewing figures and large populations, yet even their votes are dominated by points to Turkey (Germany) or Poland, Lithuania and Greece (UK). If the diaspora vote cannot be overcome in these countries, where can it?

Whilst juries shouldn't be actively sinking acts who are guaranteed 12 points on the televote due to diaspora voting, I have little sympathy for those acts when it does happen, particularly acts like Voltaj and Geneology who deliberately courted the diaspora vote.

 

[Krishoes]

So, because Elhaida has been The Voice of Italy and here there is a huge romanian diaspora they deserved atrocious placements as if it were their fault. That sounds completely ridicolous.

 

[Alaska49]

that's plain and simply xenophobia. nobody complains when eastern europe breaks their alliances to give points to sweden and italy but when it's the opposite it can only be those evil so called diasporas.

the more i read people enabling this kind of bullshit the juries do, the more i feel they should go away entirely. if they are going to vote for reasons other than the performance we do not need them.

 

[carriethunderwood]

So, because Elhaida has been The Voice of Italy and here there is a huge romanian diaspora they deserved atrocious placements as if it were their fault. That sounds completely ridicolous.

Not at all. I don't think it's fair to lump Elhaida in with Voltaj. She received a huge number of votes due to her prior exposure in the country, something that happens all over Europe and is completely legitimate. The issue is that Voltaj didn't merit 20% of the vote. The vast majority of those votes will have come from Romanians living in Italy who voted for Voltaj the maximum 20 times, and would have done so regardless of the song or the performance. Voltaj's song/performance didn't earn them that 12 points; the fact that they're Romanian did.

Now, like I said before, I don't think juries should be actively sinking the diaspora vote. That's not fair and that's not their purpose. I'm just saying I don't feel bad about Voltaj losing points that they only earnt in the first place by virtue of their nationality.

Edit: And to clarify, I actually really liked the Romanian song this year. It was easily in my top 10 and I wanted it to do well. I just wanted it to do well due to its strength as a song rather than the fact that it was representing Romania.

 

[SpZ]

I think that the juries should have the power to rearrange the top 10 a little to decrease block/diaspora/crap voting, but should not have the power to bash televoting favourites completely. So I think that the top 10 should be the top 10 of televote which is rearranged on 50-50% televote-jury basis. In practice something like this:

Italian televotes this year were:

1 Albania
2 Romania
3 Russia
4 Poland
5 Serbia
6 Israel
7 Georgia
8 Sweden
9 Spain
10 Belgium

So those 10 countries should be the Italian top 10, but the order should be changed a little based on the juries.

The juries ranked those 10 countries as following:

1 Sweden (2)
2 Belgium (4)
3 Israel (6)
4 Russia (8)
5 Serbia (17)
6 Georgia (18)
7 Spain (19)
8 Poland (20)
9 Albania (25)
10 Romania (26)

And the combined ranking would be:

12 Russia 7 (3+4)
10 Israel 9 (6+3)
8 Sweden 9 (8+1)
7 Albania 10 (1+9)
6 Serbia 10 (5+5)
5 Romania 12 (2+10)
4 Poland 12 (4+8)
3 Belgium 12 (10+2)
2 Georgia 13 (7+6)
1 Spain 16 (9+7)

Compare to real Italian votes:

12 Sweden
10 Russia
8 Israel
7 Belgium
6 Australia
5 Norway
4 Latvia
3 Serbia
2 Estonia
1 Poland

That would imo be a lot fairer as it actually decreases the diaspora Romanian/fame Albanian votes, but does not bash those songs undeservingly into oblivion. It would also notably leave the jury favourite Norway without any points and push Sweden (who was jury's 2nd favourite) into 3rd place. In general this system would punish songs which are an obvious jury bait a lot because falling out of the televote top 10 means an automatic 0 points for a country.

 

[LoveHate]

Just take the top 12 from the televoting and the juries and put those numbers together (12 for the winner, 11, 10 etc.). Rank 13 or lower equals 0 regardless of the exact ranking. If there's a tie, televote triumphs. I guess they could use only the top 10, but if an entry is 11th in both categories (like Slovenia in the Finnish vote), I think it deserves a point.

Having the order of ranks 13-26 affecting their chances is unfair in both televoting and jury voting. In televoting the margins are so small, and in jury voting we have the abilty to sabotage by ranking a song very low on purpose. In the case of Albania/Romania in Italy they would get points, but not top marks.

 

[Krishoes]

I think that we actually need a free voting, 'cause if you ask for people money and then you bring juries to punish songs/singers only for their nationality it's unfair for the people who decided to vote, no matter what is the reason.

 

[SwissKung]

Just bring back the 2011-2012 system, it's as simple as that, hardly no one was complaining back then because it was more fair.