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Sign the Petition to Jon Ola Sand

Do you want the Eurovision jury?

  • Yes

    30 68.2%
  • No

    12 27.3%
  • Don't Care

    2 4.5%

  • Total voters
    44

FallenAngelII

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Ok! It's not that they do to much harm with that but please respect the name of the contest and don't rate the VOCAL PERFORMANCE!
For the last time, the juries are instructed to mostly overlook vocal ability for song quality! It's in their job description! And they do it all the time! How else do you explain Hadise being 6th with the juries in 2009 and Lena being 1st last year?! Also, Estonia's jury reportedly gave Sweden 10 points this year. I guess they just loved Eric's vocal ability!
 

Joyride

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I say no to juries. Why?

Because 5 people have the same weight (not literally of course ;)) with their votes as thousands or millions of voters in the same country have. This is not fair. Even more if you consider they vote as 'normal' people not music professionals. This makes even less sense to me!

Apart from that, they can't prevent the block voting anyway and also a good song needs more than block voting or diaspora to win.
 

FallenAngelII

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IEven more if you consider they vote as 'normal' people not music professionals. This makes even less sense to me!
Wait what?

Apart from that, they can't prevent the block voting anyway and also a good song need more than block voting to win.
They certainly lessen it. And in a year with two close favourites, block voting (without the juries there to counteract it) could very well decide the final outcome.
 

lucian-crusher

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We do not yet know how much of that was thanks to the juries. Also, you used France as an argument. Either concede you were wrong or defend the argument. I'm not a fan of the "Let's pretend I neve said that" approach.
No! I didn't use :fr: as an argument! I just weanted to say that in GENERAL music experts say that Opera and Jazz are quality music!

No they weren't. They are instructed to vote for ccompositions and songs over stage show and vocal ability. It's a part of their job.

What? Really?
Yes! Really! There is no good music or bad music! Is just music!

Keep telling yourself that. That there's no way to judge lyrics, compositions, melody and arrangement.
The only way to judge it is with your ear and that's it!

So why do you even watch the Eurovision Song Contest? I assume you think the televoters are qualified to rate the quality of each entry, as you keep demanding the juries be abolished and all power be given to the televoters.

Isn't that then judging what's better? You're just mad you no longer hold 100% of the power.
I am not upset that I don't have 100 %. I am upset that a jury member has 10 % of my country votes and he votes for free and I have like 0,001 % and I have to pay for it. Also he can vote 10 entries from 1 to 12, while I can't vote like that because If I would've sent 12 SMS's for :sl:, 10 SMS's for :ba:, 8 SMS's for :ch: [....] and 1 SMS for :gr: I would've payed 58 Euros and I would've needed 3 telephones!
 

Joyride

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Wait what?
Let me explain. I don't know who was in the Swedish jury, but in the German jury 3 out of 5 were ladies, either young of age or in a modern rock oder dance band that is in the charts at the moment or both. You can't call them a "professional musician". They are just band members. I don't think they vote from a professional point of view. They just voted with heir personal preferences just as the other German inhabitants did. So the jury makes no sense for me apart from the fact that 5 people have the same influence as thousands of people.
 

lucian-crusher

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Well Lucian, what do you think, you just posted estonian jury results, have they voted for songs or vocal?
You are right! I just can't get over :lt: being in the Final when no one said they like it, but I will belive you that Evelina amazing voice had nothing to do with the song qualifying and it's because they liked it!
 

FallenAngelII

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http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/culture/news/49277/ Just take a look. I'm not Armenian, but I believe Omar.
1 year old unverified story told only in an Armenian paper. And wow, it must be true! Because the juries totally unfairly favoured Safura! Oh wait, no. Azerbaijan was 5th in the televote, but only split 9th (with Armenia) in the jury vote (the juries gave Azerbaijan 50 points less than the televoters did last year). Wow, money totally well-spent! I guess without those $20 million, Safura would only been, I don't know, 19th with the juries or something.
 

Joyride

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But that was told by Nadine Beiler of Austria as well - I posted it in the thread about the final.
 

FallenAngelII

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No! I didn't use :fr: as an argument! I just weanted to say that in GENERAL music experts say that Opera and Jazz are quality music!
So... why even use opera as an example? Opera has never fared very well in Eurovision...

Yes! Really! There is no good music or bad music! Is just music!
Then why even vote about songs? Just make it a 3-hour concert.

The only way to judge it is with your ear and that's it!
No it's not.

I am not upset that I don't have 100 %. I am upset that a jury member has 10 % of my country votes and he votes for free and I have like 0,001 % and I have to pay for it. Also he can vote 10 entries from 1 to 12, while I can't vote like that because If I would've sent 12 SMS's for :sl:, 10 SMS's for :ba:, 8 SMS's for :ch: [....] and 1 SMS for :gr: I would've payed 58 Euros and I would've needed 3 telephones!
That's because you apparently think there's no difference in quality between Portugal's entry this year and, say, Italy's. I'd pay good money to keep people like you from having 10% of the power.

Let me explain. I don't know who was in the Swedish jury, but in the German jury 3 out of 5 were ladies, either young of age or in a modern rock oder dance band that is in the charts at the moment or both. You can't call them a "professional musician". They are just band members. I don't think they vote from a professional point of view. They just voted with heir personal preferences just as the other German inhabitants did. So the jury makes no sense for me apart from the fact that 5 people have the same influence as thousands of people.
That's not a problem with the jury system, that's a problem with the jury selection system. The EBU needs to be better at selecting jury members, which is another thing altogether from how 50% jury voting works.

Jury members aren't doing their jobs if they're simply voting according to personal tastes. And such incompetent nincompoops should be fired and never be allowed to be part of an Eurovision jury ever again.

You are right! I just can't get over :lt: being in the Final when no one said they like it, but I will belive you that Evelina amazing voice had nothing to do with the song qualifying and it's because they liked it!
I've personally seen several people say they liked it and that they voted for it. Also, believe it or not, there are televoters who vote partially or largely according to who sings better.

But that was told by Nadine Beiler of Austria as well - I posted it in the thread about the final.
Except the story in the Armenian newspaper is about the 2010 contest and not the 2011 contest. Since Azerbaijan wasn't excluded from the 2011 contest, I must assume the EBU investigated the 2010 accusations and came to the conclusion that it was bovine manure.

And Nadine Beiler is hardly a credible source. How would she even know whether or not the juries had been bribed or pressured?

"Eric Saade totally killed som guy last week. He's also a child molester! And Christer Björkman totally bribed 7 different juries to give Sweden their 12-pointers!" - Me, 2011.

I guess that since we have one source for those claims, they must be true!
 
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Joyride

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It's a bit tricky because who decides what is a good song and what is not? I'm sure that Italy got a lot of points from the jury only because it's a traditional Chanson in the sense of the original idea of Grand Prix de la Chanson. Though I think there is more and more crap in the ESC we must not forget, music gets more modern every year. So not every sophisticated song is automatically a good song.

As for Nadine Beiler... I don't know, I didn't say I believe her or the Austrian news site. ;) I don't think it's true either.
 

lucian-crusher

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Then why even vote about songs? Just make it a 3-hour concert.
Because we have to see what people like the most, but if a song wins it doesen't mean it was of better quality then the last placed. It means it was just loved by more people.

That's because you apparently think there's no difference in quality between Portugal's entry this year and, say, Italy's. I'd pay good money to keep people like you from having 10% of the power.
I like the Italian song more then the Portuguesse one. I even hated the Portuguesse song but I am saying that there are some people that think the Portuguesse song was awesome and the Italian song was trash. Does it mean that persons that think like that have bad music taste? No! It means they like the Portuguesse song more!
 

FallenAngelII

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It's a bit tricky because who decides what is a good song and what is not? I'm sure that Italy got a lot of points from the jury only because it's a traditional Chanson in the sense of the original idea of Grand Prix de la Chanson. Though I think there is more and more crap in the ESC we must not forget, music gets more modern every year. So not every sophisticated song is automatically a good song.
The juries have detailed instructions in what to look for in a song, not just "Whatever you think is a good song".

And just as old-fashioned songs aren't automatically good, neither are they automatically bad nor are modern songs automatically good.

I like the Italian song more then the Portuguesse one. I even hated the Portuguesse song but I am saying that there are some people that think the Portuguesse song was awesome and the Italian song was trash. Does it mean that persons that think like that have bad music taste? No! It means they like the Portuguesse song more!
In the case of Portugal's entry this year: Yes, yes it does.

You can like it, sure. But if you claim that it's well-written or well-performed song, then you're just wrong.
 

MyHeartIsYours

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Nope, I love the Juries. There's got to be reform of the whole voting system but any system must include an element of Juries - to just abolish them and go back to how it was in 2007 would be a disaster.
 
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Grinch

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March 13, 2011
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I agree with Joyride, I'm against the current jury. The number of them is not much and they're not even proffessional. I'd support jury if they were at least 15-20 people and include of proffessionals, academics only. It's way too unfair.

A few people = 50%
Millions of people = 50%
 

AlekS

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As for Nadine Beiler - I've already explained everything in 2011.
That article wasn't said by her (it says "from our insider..." go figure ;) ).

It's physically impossible to guarantee the televoting... the person who wrote that "article" has not a single clue about how televoting works.
+ proabbly the UK, Sweden and France bribed our jury then (we are so cool :cool:).
 

AlekS

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http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/culture/news/49277/ Just take a look. I'm not Armenian, but I believe Omar.
FAIL :lol: :lol: :lol:

Omar is a brother of the 1st vice president of Ukrainian broadcaster who gave them 12 points )))))

The original article wasn't translated properly from French by 1 biased German ESC blog. And this particular site is yellow Armenian press (I know it for years :lol:).
 
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