Should Big 5 be expanded/abolished/kept the same?

[Verjamem]

We should look on Big 5 from few perspectives.

1. Money
Eurovision is more expensive than before, it's not easier without Russia and Turkiye in. However, even with sponsorship deals (Moroccan Oil, TikTok, Booking.com), Martin Österdahl complains how difficult it is to organize the contest. Is he right or there are some things which can be done better?

2. Keeping big/important countries satisfied
Germany's absence in 1996 is cited as of the main reasons, which resulted in creation of Big 5. France and Spain were close to relegation around 2000 too. Well, things are different. EBU didn't know what to do then, contest was expanding quickly and widely. Now it's clear, you can participate every year and you qualify for the final or not, but either way you have a opportunity to show yourself on big stage. Last time we talked about limited number of countries was around 2005?

3. Power of participating countries
Big 5 or not, I think broadcasters/countries still have too little power, influence on EBU, contest. Maybe this group should be a voice of participants and represent their interests when it's needed?

 

[HarryUK]

The Big 5 provide a colossal financial contribution to the contest so rightly should automatically qualify for the final. Otherwise, what’s the incentive to spend so much and in many cases, subsidise smaller country’s fees by paying so much?

 

[Sammy]

kept the same.

 

[Verjamem]

@HarryUK, how much these 5 countries pay and do they really "subsidise" presence of smaller countries?

 

[Judas]

I want to know how much an average member pays and how much the big 5 pay. I love Italian entries to the heart, but their prequalification has always left a bad taste in my mouth given they weren't even present for all these years and they get the VIP spot just like that. I also feel bad for participants/countries who have to be left out only because of the spots Big 5 hold every year whether they have competitive entries or just poor taste of music. Unless it is significantly an important contribution to the contest, that should not be a thing at all.

Also relatively off topic but French should cease to be one of the two official languages of the contest as well.

 

[EscGeek]

In my Utopian Land, the big 5 are fighting in the semis like normal people and the viewership of eurovision is not affected if they don't qualify. Crazy concept, i know.
(of course the number of qualifiers is increased from 10 to 12/13)

Next year you better pay even more so that we don't lose more countries.. or better yet, pay so much that at least one country returns and i don't mean Monaco.

 

[HarryUK]

@HarryUK, how much these 5 countries pay and do they really "subsidise" presence of smaller countries?

Well if the Big 5 were made to compete in the semi finals, the EBU would have to recoup the lost money from somewhere. That is the subsidy.

 

[ag89]

EBU is not willing to lose all the viewers from the UK, Germany, Spain... Imagine UK fails to qualify, you get 4-5 million people less watching the show. Big 5 is here to stay and I don't mind it.

 

[randajad]

I'd love to see the "big" 5 abolished, but that's obviously unrealistic.

 

[Storm]

This was the first year in forever not a single Big 5 country was in the Bottom 3. Do you think this is just a coincidence, they all happened to have decent enough songs, or that they can pander better to juries than the countries that have to go through the tele vote-only SFs, or did it help that they all got to perform properly during the SF show already?

 

[GRE]

This was the first year in forever not a single Big 5 country was in the Bottom 3. Do you think this is just a coincidence, they all happened to have decent enough songs, or that they can pander better to juries than the countries that have to go through the tele vote-only SFs, or did it help that they all got to perform properly during the SF show already?

Good songs + performing in Semifinals

 

[gigi_copp3]

This was clearly not the best Big 5 package we've had in the last years. 2022 an 2023 were better, but in both somehow two of them finised bottom 2.
This year however every single of them had some appeal to someone: were competitive, had a great vocalist that deserved points by the juries, had a good staging and had lot of fans that decided to vote for it in order to avoid last place.

 

[Chrisiam]

Given how many nations we've had pull out over the past few years due to financing issues (or drastically cut back their staging due to financing issues) if the Big Five was abolished then there would be less money going into the contest which would mean the other participating nations would need to play more to make up for that which I don't think that many can do.

So unless we want a far smaller contest then they need to stay as is. The only other option is more corporate sponsorship and even then I can't see that reaching Big Five levels of money any time soon.

 

[Mainshow]

Germany's payment (participation fee) to the EBU:

2015: 363,500 €
2019: 405,100 €
2024: 454,905 €

Spain
2022: 640,000 €
2023: 347,700 €

Greece paid:
2012: 120,000 €
2023: 150,000 €


2012: 80,000 €

North Macedonia:
2022: 39,143 €

Switzerland
2016: 63,500 €

source: official numbers taken from eurovision.de

Was kostet der ESC die Teilnehmerländer?

Ein schlechter Platz beim ESC sorgt immer für Kritik: Teilnahme zu teuer, gar Beitragsverschwendung - so die Vorwürfe. Doch wie hoch sind die Kosten für die Länder wirklich?

www.eurovision.de

It is important to point out that the Big 5 countries fund the contest efficiently (and also provide the largest amount of viewers) BUT they aren't automatically the main funder of the overall contest, e.g. the 2022 contest in Turin cost 11 million € and thus, Germany's payment "represented" 3,7% of the overall cost.

No add Spain , UK , France and Italy percentage(s) - assuming the numbers are similar. The Big 5 pay 18,5% of the overall cost - the rest is sponsoring, the host cities/broadcasters stepping in and the remaining participating countries but looking at the numbers from or - it's clear that if we lose the Big 5 countries, it will be a hell of organising the contest and thus, the Big 5 status should remain the same (even though it's partly unfair).

 

[DoctorX]

Well, tho I understand the logic behind it, I agree with the above points about Italy returning. Italy's comeback was cool, but scoring a Big 5 spot right off the bat? Kinda makes you think. So, if there's a fee to skip the line and get VIP treatment, could other countries just throw down and do the same? I mean, Switzerland, Sweden, or Norway might be up for it. Isn't it kinda weird now that the Big 5 perform in the semis just like everyone else, but they don't have to qualify? It's like they're trying to level the playing field but not quite getting there. To keep it fair, why not make them compete in the semis too?

Here's an idea: why not split participation into two levels? Basic gets you in for the semis, but if you're willing to throw some more cash, straight to the final

 

[Miloutchi]

The AVROTROS doesn’t want to give exact numbers, but they always say it costs roughly 500,000 to participate, of which half is for the participation fee. But they have been saying that since 2016, and it seemed like the fee has increased since then.

So now we know how costly the Dutch disqualification may have been.

 

[ag89]

Maybe the EBU should play a risky game a create a rotation system where 1 or 2 Big 5 countries must compete in the semi?

For example, Italy competes in the semi 2025, France in 2026, UK in 2027 etc... That may help these countries in getting more competitive, but also semi finals will be more attractive to watch. Finally, this comprise might silence those who are against BIG 5 direct place in the final.

 

[ESC94]

Maybe the EBU should play a risky game a create a rotation system where 1 or 2 Big 5 countries must compete in the semi?

For example, Italy competes in the semi 2025, France in 2026, UK in 2027 etc... That may help these countries in getting more competitive, but also semi finals will be more attractive to watch. Finally, this comprise might silence those who are against BIG 5 direct place in the final.

There´s no chance in hell after this year that the EBU displeases a member of the Big 5.

 

[SpiritofKeiino]

Big 5 should stay unchanged. Also this is NOT the year to make those sort of changes.

 

[Verjamem]

Also this is NOT the year to make those sort of changes.

Modifying Big 5? Maybe, but what else do you mean by "those sort of changes". ESC needs changes asap.