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Opinion on racism shown in voting?!

rasmuslights

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thoughts on this tweet?
I think it's bs...
I think we all knew Malta won't do great with televote, it was early in ro and was similar to a lot of songs. Sweden actually got quite a lot of televotes for that song. San Marino finished where it needed I don't know who on Earth expected to see Senhit in the top 10... and Jeangu was always destined to doom, he would've done much better with Grow tho!
 

aef

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Gosh, bringing racism in her is quite ridiculous!

My explanation for each country:

:mt: It did very well in the semi final with televoters due to the very good spot at the end, then it was more ore less burried with the running order in the final. :mt: is also lacking reliable voting allies! All in all it simply lost it status as big favorite over the past days.

:se: was expected to achieve a mediocre result. No further explanation needed here. The running order somehow helped them getting at least those 63 points in the final.

:nl: was too different for Europe, different in a way that doesn't result in points like :ua: for example. It's also quite common for the host country to be underappreciated when it comes to voting.

:sm: simply lacked voting allies. The song also didn't unfold the expected bop realness live.
 

kruskica

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I may get a lot of negative reactions for this one, but I think racism is used in this case as an excuse and a reason to blame someone for a result that was bound to happen. Yeah, racism is a very big problem in the world, but I don't think that's why Destiny and Jeangu failed. They probably did lose some of their votes because of that, but they also gained some because of black empowerment, especially after BLM, so it evens out. Destiny was forgotten amongst similar songs and her stage was a disaster and she wasn't really charismatic either. I don't think anything could have saved Jeangu from being among last ones. And about Senhit, yeah she did deserve better, but her race aint the reason. Loreen is also Arabic (if I'm not wrong) and she won by a landslide.
 
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ag89

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Please.... When there are no problems let's create them? Malta had a fantastic singer with an average song. Sweden an average song as well. The Netherlands, to hard for an average European to understand. San Marino, one among many bangers. Race has nothing to do with the final results. UK got 0, Spain too. Two white guys. Belgium got 3 pts. White Europeans. It's a ridiculous tweet.
 

kruskica

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Also, to add something, it would make way more sense that jury ranked some song lower just because the singers are a certain race, because 5 people of certain countries may happen to be racist, but for televote it makes no sense, there is no way that the entire population of any country is racist in this day and age.
 
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Miloutchi

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I don't really know what is happening in other countries, but Jeangu is getting a LOT of racist, negative comments from Dutch people, just for not being Dutch, having no white person on stage, singing in another language, whatever.

That, to me, is a blatant expression of racism of the kind that we should all oppose.

I don't believe it really changed anybody's chance at getting a good result though (unless I might not like the entries based on unconscious racist ideas, but I don't think so), but that doesn't mean we can just ignore all the things that are being said, also by some people here.
 

Zeus

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Well, I live in the same country, but I don't saw the racism againt Jeangu. Or do you mean on social media? Because there is hate for everyone. But not really a big social media-follower in general.

The British will bring everything up except the fact that they send a boring popsong with a mediocre singer who was mainly out of breath and has no charisma at all. In other years they send lame overproduced ballads with no character in it at all.

Also, I wasn't surprised with the scores for Malta and The Netherlands. Sweden did even better with the televote than I predicted.
 

DenizESC

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I don't really know what is happening in other countries, but Jeangu is getting a LOT of racist, negative comments from Dutch people, just for not being Dutch, having no white person on stage, singing in another language, whatever.

That, to me, is a blatant expression of racism of the kind that we should all oppose.

I don't believe it really changed anybody's chance at getting a good result though (unless I might not like the entries based on unconscious racist ideas, but I don't think so), but that doesn't mean we can just ignore all the things that are being said, also by some people here.
True this is btw a bit besides this topic per se (just saying if people get confused) because I don't think any artists here did worse than expected + Jeangu was mean't as a relaxed entry anyway, it's a PQ.

Such racism is sadly pretty much normalized. Social media can be toxic in general indeed, however this doesn't mean that what we saw towards Jeangu is part of that general toxicity, he is specifically being target because well...we know know why. Definitely good to speak up about it (y) In this age, we can't just ignore social media, it's become part of almost everyone's day to day life and during covid times it might be pretty much everything an artist reads :( Btw if you see toxic comments you can report it, certain sites actually do tend to take action.
 

A-lister

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Oh God not identity politics again...

These acts didn't fail due to race let's be real

:nl: a song that was dead on arrival, anyone pretend elsewise delude themselves (I wish though host countries could at least try to send something somewhat worthy, it's like they always do all in their power not to host again)
:se: actually did better with televoters than most expected given the mediocre entry (the starting number might have helped Sweden a bit here)
:mt: more jury-bait and also without much "help" (this is quite a typical scenario from Malta)
:sm: I always felt this was more a fandom favorite than anything, plus also no help either (and while people applaud Flo Rida, when did rap ever work in Eurovision?) xshrug
:il: if there is an entry I could see have been "downvoted" (= purposely ignored) due to the "wrong reasons", this was it, but that's about it, it was never a big pre-favorite anyways.
 
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FilipFromSweden

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I think there is definitely racism affecting the Eurovision televote at times, but we should probably remember that Maroccan Loreen and her black dancer won in 2012
 

rasmuslights

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I don't really know what is happening in other countries, but Jeangu is getting a LOT of racist, negative comments from Dutch people, just for not being Dutch, having no white person on stage, singing in another language, whatever.

That, to me, is a blatant expression of racism of the kind that we should all oppose.

I don't believe it really changed anybody's chance at getting a good result though (unless I might not like the entries based on unconscious racist ideas, but I don't think so), but that doesn't mean we can just ignore all the things that are being said, also by some people here.

I agree that people are getting hate for their colour of the skin that wasn't the meaning of my post. The meaning was that I don't believe in the slightest that this was the deciding factor... people who are racist on-line probably don't even watch eurovision and if they do they certainly don't vote...

racism should of course be called out but not some speculation because someone thinks Destiny should've won or Jeangue shouldn't have done so poorly.
 

A-lister

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I agree that people are getting hate for their colour of the skin that wasn't the meaning of my post. The meaning was that I don't believe in the slightest that this was the deciding factor... people who are racist on-line probably don't even watch eurovision and if they do they certainly don't vote...

racism should of course be called out but not some speculation because someone thinks Destiny should've won or Jeangue shouldn't have done so poorly.

This!, this discussion is already a bit tiring and I think it's a cheap card to play really in this context.

I think it's pretty rare to find those fringe bigoted people also tuning into Eurovision, it's really not their forum at all. There might be some racists out these among casual viewers as well, but not to the extent that it would affect the results.
 

Himan

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The problem is that racism is often unconscious. For instance I have lived in the Netherlands in a rural village as far as it can go. There weren't a lot of black people, so after living there I went to a bigger place and to university and also found out that I have this bias in my head. Now I have followed some ethics courses in combination with data science and almost always there is a hint to unconscious racism with groups almost everywhere.

What it would do in this case might not be voting directly, though that might be a bit of a problem too, but can also be that the white part of the population who is unknowingly unconscious racist slowly claim that this or that song of this black person is bad and after that other people will follow up, because we are social animals.

These sentences don't mean we are all evil motherfuckers or that no black guy/girl can ever reach high. But it might be more difficult.
 

A-lister

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The problem is that racism is often unconscious. For instance I have lived in the Netherlands in a rural village as far as it can go. There weren't a lot of black people, so after living there I went to a bigger place and to university and also found out that I have this bias in my head. Now I have followed some ethics courses in combination with data science and almost always there is a hint to unconscious racism with groups almost everywhere.

What it would do in this case might not be voting directly, though that might be a bit of a problem too, but can also be that the white part of the population who is unknowingly unconscious racist slowly claim that this or that song of this black person is bad and after that other people will follow up, because we are social animals.

These sentences don't mean we are all evil motherfuckers or that no black guy/girl can ever reach high. But it might be more difficult.

Just no... sorry but no...

4 acts received :0: points from the public, three of them were white...

The Dutch song didn't receive :0: because the act was black, and again Sweden received a much higher televoting score than expected with a song that (although there are some fans of it) was arguable our weakest entry in a decade. Malta was #2 with the public in the semi, Israel was #5. In fact all black or half-black acts made it to the final except for the Czech act, but should an entry just qualify based on the color of someone's skin? xshrug

Racism does exist sure, but this current culture of claiming that everything is racism is just toxic and is not helping anyone, in fact it just fuels more division among people.
 

Himan

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Just no... sorry but no...

4 acts received :0: points from the public, three of them were white...

The Dutch song didn't receive :0: because the act was black, and again Sweden received a much higher televoting score than expected with a song that (although there are some fans of it) was arguable our weakest entry in a decade. Malta was #2 with the public in the semi, Israel was #5. In fact all black or half-black acts made it to the final except for the Czech act, but should an entry just qualify based on the color of someone's skin? xshrug

Racism does exist sure, but this current culture of claiming that everything is racism is just toxic and is not helping anyone, in fact it just fuels more division among people.
Anecdotal stuff doesn't say anything to me, you have to crunch the numbers.

I have never said that I hated you for doing this(since I'm doing it myself!), I have never said it's in the laws, especially not in Western Europe. But in our subconsciousness this is a problem and we live in a majority white continent, hence this happens if you like it or not. I'm not saying you will all never see talent in black people, I'm not saying it can't be the other way around(It can, and it happens!), I'm not trying to divide, I'm trying to educate. I wouldn't bring this tweet in this way, but saying there is absolutely no racism in Eurovision is wrong.
 

Yazy

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I loved "Birth of a New Age" but that doesn´t mean that everybody can click with that type of music genre.
Obviously, a lot of people could not, and that was evident even before the contest.

Its pretty much just like how majority of people couldn´t click with Croatian Klapa music or that Georgian band from 2018.

If the reality was that I am among those people that didn´t like Jeangu´s entry and I couldn´t connect with the music..........

..........and then when I say it, someone like that girl on Twitter comes out and tells me that I´m anti black......I wouldn´t even bother trying to explain anything to her.

I would just tell her to piss off.
 
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