North Macedonia NORTH MACEDONIA 2019 - Tamara Todevska - Proud

[Alaska49]

are we going to go there? then we are going to go there: tamara IMO is a much better jury winner than césar in every aspect. stronger performer, more unique composition (since neither is particularly modern or ground breaking), stronger and current (but at the same time timeless) message, and most importantly she did all of that with no big musical connections which we all know are jury advantages. for all the limitations jury have, this was one of the better outcomes we could get.

also, not the first time i point this out, and probably not the last: a-lister, at some point you will have to choose between complaining about juries rewarding dated and not modern songs or complaining about juries rewarding "anglovision". you can't play both teams. you just cannot. wanting too much modernisation necessarily means opening the door to american trends, and there is no way around it. the way i see it, the door is already way too open for them, and it's not even open. give me proud any day.

 

[Milos-BC]

Well done neighbors, amazing achievment and I was really happy to see Tamara doing so well. I loved this song from the beginning and I always felt that it is very underappreciated.

It's definitely the best entry ever and it deserved to end this well. This is perhaps the only thing the juries did right this year.

 

[A-lister]

In your opinion, not theirs



In your opinion, not theirs



In your opinion, not theirs

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ffs, That's the point of Eurovision. They vote for what they like. Just like you can. What you've said is basically "People can vote for San Marino or Macedonia cause their songs are shit, while the juries should vote for best, most professional entry there is".
Which - in case you didn't get it - differs for each person. Crying over and over because someone gave more points to the song you like less than to the song you like more (and accusing these people of lack of professionalism while openly raging at their opinions that are different than yours) - I though this forum had some kind of age verification system. I guess not.


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On the other hand, this is exactly what I'd call professional performance.
Just a piano, some strings and the voice (and that horrible dress) - audience is slayed, I am slayed, my friends are slayed, juries are slayed.

And exactly what is your opinion? I didn't think so, blank... I guess it's always easier to have things to say about other people than actually bringing something to the table yourself.

And no, it's not just "my opinion", try send a song like "Proud" to radios, try to get it on playlists, try to have it succeed on Spotify, I think you will find out the results pretty soon that no one will touch this in this day and age and it is because it IS dated and without appeal, if you like it (since you rarely express your own opinions just jump on others), fine that's your prerogative, but don't act like this is a song that has any life in "real music" in 2019.

I think for your own sake it's better the forum doesn't have age verification, so maybe it works both ways

 

[A-lister]

also, not the first time i point this out, and probably not the last: a-lister, at some point you will have to choose between complaining about juries rewarding dated and not modern songs or complaining about juries rewarding "anglovision". you can't play both teams. you just cannot. wanting too much modernisation necessarily means opening the door to american trends, and there is no way around it. the way i see it, the door is already way too open for them, and it's not even open. give me proud any day.

Completely disagree, for instance where I live now Soldi is already playlisted on the most "contemporary" radio channels, and it's not in English last time I checked. It's simply a cool contemporary song... Proud on the other ... you'll never see it playlisted anywhere except for maybe local Macedonian radios and there's a reason for that... Iceland was fully in Icelandic, one of the smallest obscure languages to have ever entered the Eurovision stage and this was for sure more modern and interesting than most stuff we ever got in Eurovision. USA didn't invent music, in fact a big part of the "American" hits we had for the past decades were made by Swedes even Oh and Proud sounds more like some American Idol ballad than it does coming from Europe, is it modern or on trend though? Never....

 

[Alaska49]

Completely disagree, for instance where I live now Soldi is already playlisted on the most "contemporary" radio channels, and it's not in English last time I checked. It's simply a cool contemporary song... Proud on the other ... you'll never see it playlisted anywhere except for maybe local Macedonian radios and there's a reason for that... Iceland was fully in Icelandic, one of the smallest obscure languages to have ever entered the Eurovision stage and this was for sure more modern and interesting than most stuff we ever got in Eurovision. USA didn't invent music, in fact a big part of the "American" hits we had for the past decades were made by Swedes even Oh and Proud sounds more like some American Idol ballad than it does coming from Europe, is it modern or on trend though? Never....

your innocence is honestly inspiring. i am not saying songs that are both modern and european don't exist, i am just saying it is 100% impossible to make sure only they are sent to the contest. if the message you send to countries is "we want modern", people will send modern, and a lot of people will send american modern, and they will keep doing that no matter how mamy times the juries say "no, not like that", and that's if they wouldn't just approve the americanised crap. american trends exist and influence other music all the time, it matters EXACTLY ZERO that americans didn't invent music or else you wouldn't cry and complain about "american idol" and the like every single time including in your very next sentence (again, your capability of compartmentalising your own principles is fascinating).

not that proud is even an american idol song anyway (that part being obvious for anyone actually listening to the song but...). i think it was posted earlier in this thread that it's actually similarly composed to SUUS? you know, suus, the old music reality TV show staple. everyone sings it in the voice battles. it's a favourite of blake shelton.

 

[LeBomb]

You're going on about how "Proud" isn't a radio-friendly song... Last time I checked "mainstream radio hit potential" is not a criteria for the jury voting.

And I'm glad it's not like that, otherwise we would have seen songs like this year win the jury vote. :s

 

[lavieenrose]

you know, suus, the old music reality TV show staple. everyone sings it in the voice battles. it's a favourite of blake shelton.

Spit-take

 

[A-lister]

your innocence is honestly inspiring. i am not saying songs that are both modern and european don't exist, i am just saying it is 100% impossible to make sure only they are sent to the contest. if the message you send to countries is "we want modern", people will send modern, and a lot of people will send american modern, and they will keep doing that no matter how mamy times the juries say "no, not like that", and that's if they wouldn't just approve the americanised crap. american trends exist and influence other music all the time, it matters EXACTLY ZERO that americans didn't invent music or else you wouldn't cry and complain about "american idol" and the like every single time including in your very next sentence (again, your capability of compartmentalising your own principles is fascinating).

not that proud is even an american idol song anyway (that part being obvious for anyone actually listening to the song but...). i think it was posted earlier in this thread that it's actually similarly composed to SUUS? you know, suus, the old music reality TV show staple. everyone sings it in the voice battles. it's a favourite of blake shelton.

Innocence? Although I don't have as much time anymore, I was always a sort of "chart freak" and liked to follow up on music in different regions, no denying the American impact but you'd be surprised at the amount of "local" hits everywhere, but yeah I guess from a macro point of view (=Europe) it might be easier to come and convince with something that sounds more universal (you might call it American, although many of those American trends you refer to ironically started in Europe but ok)....

I still don't get the similarities with Suus here, that one was an interesting piece of work, cannot say the same here (not talking personal taste really, more strong structure etc).

Anyways, I kind of lost where we were in all this , did I say juries need to only vote for stuff that is "modern" and "on trend"? If that's what you thought then maybe you misunderstood me a bit.

 

[A-lister]

You're going on about how "Proud" isn't a radio-friendly song... Last time I checked "mainstream radio hit potential" is not a criteria for the jury voting.

And I'm glad it's not like that, otherwise we would have seen songs like this year win the jury vote. :s

Estonia? That was like a budget more Poppier Avicii demo, hardly particular "modern"...

Nah, juries don't need to go for "radio hits" (although it feels like they're trying to do that in some deluded way, except for maybe Macedonia this year), more that in 2019 to vote a bland dated ballad at top is maybe not exactly exciting. I mean my favorite this year was Iceland, it's not as if I expect any mainstream radios to pick up that song, but at least it was bringing something different to the contest and felt up-to-date (which again doesn't necessarily mean it is mainstream, those are two different things).

 

[hunty73]

This deserved to win the jury.Her delivery was stunning.Perfect staging for the song,and a vocal masterclass.Its very much similar to why Malika Ayane walks the jury at Sanremo yet suffers in the televote.The job of the jury is to reward quality and that can be song writing,vocals,delivery etc.In this case they were drawn to the quality of the delivery.Its very likely if i was a jury member i would of done the same and scored this top,not expecting televoters to do the same,but my job isnt to mimic a televoter,or wonder if it would do well on the radio that is pretty much now controlled by a few different chord loops and manufactured production line stuff.
It was a wide open year,and i have no problem with the televote winner or the jury winner.I could see a case for both for different reasons.I do think ESC should introduce two extra trophies though,jury winner and televote winner.I think it would help the contest.

 

[A-lister]

This deserved to win the jury.Her delivery was stunning.Perfect staging for the song,and a vocal masterclass.Its very much similar to why Malika Ayane walks the jury at Sanremo yet suffers in the televote.The job of the jury is to reward quality and that can be song writing,vocals,delivery etc.In this case they were drawn to the quality of the delivery.Its very likely if i was a jury member i would of done the same and scored this top,not expecting televoters to do the same,but my job isnt to mimic a televoter,or wonder if it would do well on the radio that is pretty much now controlled by a few different chord loops and manufactured production line stuff.
It was a wide open year,and i have no problem with the televote winner or the jury winner.I could see a case for both for different reasons.I do think ESC should introduce two extra trophies though,jury winner and televote winner.I think it would help the contest.

So in other words ESC should be treated as Idol / X-Factor / The Voice and only belting for three minutes should be enough? Then why do we even need original songs in the first place if they are secondary in a contest which at least on paper ought to find the best SONG? Sure, vocal delivery is important, but it's not all that should be judged in this concept and we have plenty of singing contests out there, no need to turn Eurovision into European Idol or The Voice of Europe.

 

[Dessi]

Oh GOD there is like 10 pages of whining since I was here last time.... PLEASE.... North Macedonia finally made it.... You all should be happy! But you are like babies.... WHY???

 

[A-lister]

Oh GOD there is like 10 pages of whining since I was here last time.... PLEASE.... North Macedonia finally made it.... You all should be happy! But you are like babies.... WHY???

Why should we be happy? People have different taste and different opinions, this is not a fan-thread. Some will whine, some will applaud... that's how it goes

I root for songs, not countries. Macedonia often deserved a better outcome than they got imo (they had some pretty good entries, last year was a top. 10 for me but failed on staging mostly). Their best entry will still remain 2012 for me though, here we talk a combo of great vocal delivery and a song actually worth our time.

 

[Dessi]

Why should we be happy? People have different taste and different opinions, this is not a fan-thread. Some will whine, some will applaud... that's how it goes

I root for songs, not countries. Macedonia often deserved a better outcome than they got imo (they had some pretty good entries, last year was a top. 10 for me but failed on staging mostly). Their best entry will still remain 2012 for me though, here we talk a combo of great vocal delivery and a song actually worth our time.

Yeah I know what YOU think [MENTION=4544]A-lister[/MENTION].... But I DON'T get why everybody listens to you ... for like 10 pages or so...
YOU don't need to explain anything...

 

[A-lister]

Yeah I know what YOU think [MENTION=4544]A-lister[/MENTION].... But I DON'T get why everybody listens to you ... for like 10 pages or so...
YOU don't need to explain anything...

You don't need to "listen" to me (I assume you mean read what I write)? That's completely up to you, ignore it if it makes you happier. People are free to express what they want, you can choose to filter it out if you only want to read "happy thoughts" all the time and people agreeing with you. People often diss the entries I like, that's fine, I don't mind, they have their taste I have mine, I don't go into the Icelandic thread and tell people to not express their dislike for that entry even if it happens to be my fav, that's really up to them. Frankly, my discussion has more to do with juries' choice rather than the entry itself though, I didn't even pay much attention to this entry prior the contest and seeing the jury vote.

 

[Yoozek]

And exactly what is your opinion? I didn't think so, blank... blah blah blah

It's right in there. You just didn't read it cause I didn't state it for at least 5 times.

blah blah blah

Look, I don't care about radios.
Neither do juries, as you can see. I don't even start on different kind of radios (like radios which play pop and radios which play jazz, etc) cause I'd trigger you for another 15 posts.
There's surely a radio which will happily play "Proud" but I bet it won't be enough for you cause it won't be on your tiny list of '2019 real music's A-lister radios' (the one which plays Soldi is on it - see, I read your posts)

You don't like the results cause they don't fit your list of requirements. It's fine. Whining about it while replying to every damn post in this thread - that's not fine. That's sad.

 

[A-lister]

It's right in there. You just didn't read it cause I didn't state it for at least 5 times.

Opinions on other people in the forum isn't really what I referred to as "opinion"...

Look, I don't care about radios.
Neither do juries, as you can see. I don't even start on different kind of radios (like radios which play pop and radios which play jazz, etc) cause I'd trigger you for another 15 posts.
There's surely a radio which will happily play "Proud" but I bet it won't be enough for you cause it won't be on your tiny list of '2019 real music's A-lister radios' (the one which plays Soldi is on it - see, I read your posts)

You don't like the results cause they don't fit your list of requirements. It's fine. Whining about it while replying to every damn post in this thread - that's not fine. That's sad.

And again you deliberately misunderstood my post, oh well... nothing new under the sun then.

 

[Alaska49]

Anyways, I kind of lost where we were in all this , did I say juries need to only vote for stuff that is "modern" and "on trend"? If that's what you thought then maybe you misunderstood me a bit.

i mean, when your biggest criticism of proud is "dated" and "without appeal", it did sound like your goal is for a contest that is more "modern" and "on trend". if that was not your point, then it's on you to make your point more clear lol.

the thing with music is that everything is subjective, so we as a collective will never really reach an agreement on anything. i don't think proud is dated (or modern; some compositions just don't really have a timestamp), banal, uninteresting, without appeal, and reality show-esque, but those are all feelings i do have against nobody but you from last year, which has a lot of fans, including people who think proud is boring. what can we do?

i do still think there is little point in complaining against proud winning the jury if one of your goals is to keep the contest less americanised, though, which is a view you have expressed in the past. liking it or not, dated or not, this is not at all an americanised song. just because it is a ballad, and an allegedly boring one, it doesn't mean that it is automatically an "american idol / the voice" kind of song. this is what i was trying to say earlier.

 

[A-lister]

i mean, when your biggest criticism of proud is "dated" and "without appeal", it did sound like your goal is for a contest that is more "modern" and "on trend". if that was not your point, then it's on you to make your point more clear lol.

the thing with music is that everything is subjective, so we as a collective will never really reach an agreement on anything. i don't think proud is dated (or modern; some compositions just don't really have a timestamp), banal, uninteresting, without appeal, and reality show-esque, but those are all feelings i do have against nobody but you from last year, which has a lot of fans, including people who think proud is boring. what can we do?

i do still think there is little point in complaining against proud winning the jury if one of your goals is to keep the contest less americanised, though, which is a view you have expressed in the past. liking it or not, dated or not, this is not at all an americanised song. just because it is a ballad, and an allegedly boring one, it doesn't mean that it is automatically an "american idol / the voice" kind of song. this is what i was trying to say earlier.

So we might have misunderstood each other a bit...

Well, it's hardly particularly European either? Or maybe I don't hear what others hear... like you say in the end of the day music taste and impressions are subjective, my issue is not if people like an entry or not, rather I think that if this wins the vote of alleged "professionals" then Eurovision has a credibility issue, but seems like most people are fine with such type of songs winning the jury vote so if this is really what the fans want from Eurovision then well, I guess I'm in a minority then.

 

[Mrm]

Oh GOD there is like 10 pages of whining since I was here last time.... PLEASE.... North Macedonia finally made it.... You all should be happy! But you are like babies.... WHY???

Tamara was brilliant, we gave her maximum 24 points!