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Kazakhstan KAZAKHSTAN 2022 - not taking part

escYOUnited

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GianlucaTomoe

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I used to want Kazakhstan in ESC, but not anymore, for obvious reasons , as in hype and bias from fans, who think that having a couple of okay results at a children competition gives you the right to compete in the real contest. Just like I don't want Slovakia, Turkey, Hungary, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Belarus to come back. I didn't even want Montenegro to come back, and some other countries should withdraw too. And yes, these countries need to be replaced by USA and other big extra-European countries with big music industries, like Canada, Mexico, South Korea, South Africa, Brazil, Argentina, because ESC doesn't have to be confined within' its small borders, but it has to be a supranational entity where the best songs and singers emerge, regardless of where they come from, and regardless of what the fans want.
 

Ajeje Brazorf

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I used to want Kazakhstan in ESC, but not anymore, for obvious reasons , as in hype and bias from fans, who think that having a couple of okay results at a children competition gives you the right to compete in the real contest. Just like I don't want Slovakia, Turkey, Hungary, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Belarus to come back. I didn't even want Montenegro to come back, and some other countries should withdraw too. And yes, these countries need to be replaced by USA and other big extra-European countries with big music industries, like Canada, Mexico, South Korea, South Africa, Brazil, Argentina, because ESC doesn't have to be confined within' its small borders, but it has to be a supranational entity where the best songs and singers emerge, regardless of where they come from, and regardless of what the fans want.

If it's going to be as you suggest, Eurovision will collapse and fall into pieces in maximum 3 years. Why? Let me explain my thoughts:

1) Eurovision success is determined by audience: ESC audience is made for the 90% of Europeans, because the interest for the competition itself is mainly in Europe for obvious reasons. Some of the countries you list above don't even know what Eurovision is, they are not interested in making Eurovision, so what does it make you think they would take the competition more seriously than the countries that are already taking part? At least Kazakhstan does know what Eurovision is. But I don't want them this early in the contest too. Maybe in the future. Australia is in just because they have one of the biggest fandoms outside Europe, has the biggest percentage of Europeans living and working there/population and is in the competition just as a host. You are talking like Eurovision for European people is just a show, but it's way more: it's part of the European culture and history, from its beginning in 1956. Do you know why it was created right? Exactly.

2) An annual competition between songs coming from all over the World and not only Europe already exists: they are called Grammy Awards. You may say: "But they work in a completely different way!". And my answer is yes, but if you open to more non-European countries, you will have to adapt the contest to their rules, Eurovision will become more like a Grammy and consequently will cease to exist, because the USA will never take down Grammys to make some space for Eurovision, c'mon.

I don't think Eurovision should adapt itself to others: others should try to adapt to Eurovision. If Eurovision is the most watched non-sporting event it's because it WORKS exactly LIKE IT IS. Like it or not, this is the truth.
 
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A-lister

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^ I agree with some of the points made above.

I'm against the idea of Worldvision for plenty of reasons, not only would it kill Eurovision (and like you so correctly point out, Eurovision is the largest annual non-sporting event in the world so apparently it works just fine on its own merits), let alone that Worldvision is some sort of utopia that would just be a big mess.

Nah, let Eurovision stay EURO as it was meant to, and if other continents and regions want to try to make their own versions, be my guest, but no need to destroy something that works and has its history and its own context. Also, we already have a world dominated by US culturally, they really don't need yet another platform to be honest. Eurovision is actually to promote Europe and we should embrace that (but that also means to embrace all the European diversity hence closing the door to a country like Kazakhstan makes no sense imo).
 

Ajeje Brazorf

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Being honest, I'm not against a Worldvision per se, I would love to see it, but not the way it's theorized here. My idea of Worldvision is way more difficult to be made, but it will be something really amazing! The problem are the "if's", but I'm quite a dreamer and I hope one day it will be reality, so let me dream big: if American Song Contest will include all American countries, not only the Usa, if Asia Vision will ever be a real thing, if Africa joins the family proposing an African Song Contest, then and only then WORLDVISION WILL ACTUALLY BE POSSIBLE. You just take the top 10 from every contest (Europe, Asia, America and Africa), every year, and you have your fully International song contest with 40 competing countries from all around the World. I'm just an average viewer of Eurovision Song Contest, but if in the future there is even a small possibility for a contest like that to really happen, I would LOVE to see it and I know for sure EBU has already thought of this possibility, because they have all to gain from a project like this one.

Until that moment Eurovision should remain EUROvision. And even if this theoretical project will ever take place, Eurovision will always be EUROvision, but with a better chance for the artists to gain global popularity.
 
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Mainshow

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Worldvision will not work at all. "World Idol", "Asiavision" didn't work due to low interest on an international scale, too many countries which basically hate each other and too many different time zones.

Eurovision Song Contest is unique and should stay that way. A way of celebrating European languages, cultures and music styles.
And Kazakhstan is part of Europe.
 

GianlucaTomoe

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After the outcome of their NF for JESC, I'm more and more convinced that this country has no place in any EBU contest whatsoever.
 

macmillanandwife

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It kind of doesn't make sense that they would not invite Kazakhstan to the contest, especially this year since a big five country is hosting. If the EBU is willing to let Australia in as a guest participant and automatic finalist in 2015 (and proceed to allow them to participate until 2023), why can't they extend that same invitation to Kazakhstan this year? Especially now that there is space for 1 more finalist to max the final out at 26.

Finally, if they're willing to allow Azerbaijan into the EBU even though it's east of the European Broadcasting Area, why can't they allow Kazakhstan to participate even though the westernmost point of their country on the same latitude as Baku? And Baku hosted.
While I'm not surprised that the EBU did not allow this country to participate this year, I would be LIVID if the United States is allowed to participate before Kazakhstan, and I'm American.

I do not approve of a "Worldvision" style contest, but the EBU's policy on who can or cannot participate is very inconsistent.
 

Miss Antartica

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the EBU is losing too many countries and above all the money of these absent nations is missing, turkey, russia, belarus and hungary are countries that put together have hundreds of millions of people, do not participate and do not transmit the esc, so much less money to the ebu and above all many viewers are missing for the esc
 

Sammy

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I really really really don‘t understand why you are still discussing this! Kazhakstan is an authoritarian regime that just recently supressed opposition not only by incarcerating them but shooting right into demonstrations AND inviting Russia to take part in it. Kazhakstan being one of the closest allies of the two countries that just got banned, do you really think the EBU is keen on reinviting the trouble to the contest? Having the russian/belarussian puppet dance on the ESC stage under Kazhakstans flag? The EBU has no interest to get another regime into the contest that will - like Belarus and Russia did - use it as a propaganda platform. I have been called racist here in this forum for critizising a government (which would really be funny if it wasn‘t so shocking). But attacking me doesn‘t change the reality.
By the way: spare me the comparisons of western countries (alledgedly also being authoritarian) and Kazhakstan. If you still don’t see the difference, a closer look on what’s happening in Ukraine might open your eyes. I have NOTHING against Kazhak people - I‘m totally opposed to the Kazhak regime, who btw is one of the countries that support the russian invasion of Ukraine openly. And we have seen the prove what all authoritarian regimes do ultimately.
 
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ESC94

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I really really really don‘t understand why you are still discussing this! Kazhakstan is an authoritarian regime that just recently supressed opposition not only by incarcerating them but shooting right into demonstrations AND inviting Russia to take part in it. Being one of the closest allies of the two countries that just got banned, do you really think the EBU is keen on reinviting the trouble to the contest? Having the russian/belarussian puppet dance on the ESC stage under Kazhakstans flag? The EBU has no interest to get another regime into the contest that will - like Belarus and Russia did - use it as a propaganda platform. I have been called racist here in this forum for critizising a government (which would really be funny if it wasn‘t so shocking). But attacking me doesn‘t change the reality.
By the way: spare me the comparisons of western countries (alledgedly also being authoritarian) and Kazhakstan. If you still don’t see the difference, a closer look on what’s happening in Ukraine might open your eyes. I have NOTHING against Kazhak people - I‘m totally opposed to the Kazhak regime, who btw is one of the countries that support the russian invasion of Ukraine openly. And we have seen the prove what all authoritarian regimes do ultimately.

I admire you for writing this since threads about :kz: quickly turn in to a snake pit.
 

EscGeek

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Belarus has been participating for 16 years while being authoritarian with very little drama (besides the usual NF shenanigans)
Same goes for Russia who's been with us even longer. I really don't think authoritarian regime is the problem for esc participation.

However, Belarus shot themselves in the foot last year. They were banned for the same reason as Georgia in 2009. In both cases the ban was understandable imo. Being on "the right side of history" is irrelevant here, but still, "We Don't Wanna Put In" was a banger worthy of being my top 5 while Galasy Z Mesta would've been ranked at around 30th place on my list.

Russia is a very powerful country with nukes, so sanctions that we impose on them might be the only way to solve this peacefully.

My stance on Kazakhstan remains the same: Give them a chance! But i understand that right now might not be the time to do it.

Once Putin gets killed by his own people, Kazakhstan will likely remain the same. Things will settle down and hopefully we'll see all three countries at esc stage. xangelxcookie
 

A-lister

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I need to say that I am obviously not a fan of the Kazakh regime, but I also don't know where EBU should draw the line.

Belarus and Russia were obvious cases to ban, but just being "authoritarian" (as bad as that is) or "friends with Russia" (which I'd argue we have already a bunch of active ESC participants that are), isn't enough to bloc a country from entering imho (then EBU should bloc far more countries). So far Kazakhstan didn't actively got involved in invading Ukraine, in fact they said no to Russia to take part. Kazakhstan only "abstained" in the latest UN vote against Russia's invasion of Ukraine, I know it's not ideal but at least it doesn't openly support it like some other countries and this is still a big step for a country that has been close to Russia since its independence and just recently got "help" by Russia (also active ESC participants Armenia and Azerbaijan "abstained" or didn't vote).

Yes, the regime was cracking down on protests, but what we should know is that some of those protesters are sponsored by states like Saudi and Iran with the purpose to exchange a secular dictatorship with a Sharia state (look at some of the protesters, and the fact that there almost no women among them), so sometimes you need to side with the lesser of two evils.

I dunno, for me it's a borderline case, EBU didn't care before to have dictatorships taking part so far and if anyone truly thinks EBU closed the door to Kazakhstan due to their leadership, I think you're sadly mistaken, and as much as EBU can be, I think they should be politically neutral and look at case to case basis.
 
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Ajeje Brazorf

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More than a Kazakhstan debut, I wish for Luxembourg, Bosnia, Andorra, Monaco, Hungary and Slovakia to be back someday. Or Turkey, even if I think it's more difficult. At least they have a history in ESC and three of those countries actually even won. With Belarus and Russia probably not coming back soon, if only some of these countries will come back, we are fine. Remember Eurovision has the "44 countries rule" and in the last 15 years we ALWAYS had between 37 and 43 countries participating.

Of course, in my opinion, "the more the merrier": I would like to see all countries participating together one day, but if it isn't possible even for the actual Eurovision rules, I prefer some returns other than debuts tbh.
 
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hijirio

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I really really really don‘t understand why you are still discussing this! Kazhakstan is an authoritarian regime that just recently supressed opposition not only by incarcerating them but shooting right into demonstrations AND inviting Russia to take part in it. Kazhakstan being one of the closest allies of the two countries that just got banned, do you really think the EBU is keen on reinviting the trouble to the contest? Having the russian/belarussian puppet dance on the ESC stage under Kazhakstans flag? The EBU has no interest to get another regime into the contest that will - like Belarus and Russia did - use it as a propaganda platform. I have been called racist here in this forum for critizising a government (which would really be funny if it wasn‘t so shocking). But attacking me doesn‘t change the reality.
By the way: spare me the comparisons of western countries (alledgedly also being authoritarian) and Kazhakstan. If you still don’t see the difference, a closer look on what’s happening in Ukraine might open your eyes. I have NOTHING against Kazhak people - I‘m totally opposed to the Kazhak regime, who btw is one of the countries that support the russian invasion of Ukraine openly. And we have seen the prove what all authoritarian regimes do ultimately.
I hope you show the same sensitivity when the Spanish police crackdown on Catalan protesters, injuring dozens; or the irony of Israel hosting the contest meanwhile in the very same week carrying out a military operation in Gaza.

I agree with @A-lister, authoritarianism should not be a standalone reason to ban a country from participating.
Otherwise we'll go back to 1956 lineup with only 10 'democratic Western' countries.
 

Sammy

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I hope you show the same sensitivity when the Spanish police crackdown on Catalan protesters, injuring dozens; or the irony of Israel hosting the contest meanwhile in the very same week carrying out a military operation in Gaza.

I agree with @A-lister, authoritarianism should not be a standalone reason to ban a country from participating.
Otherwise we'll go back to 1956 lineup with only 10 'democratic Western' countries.
As I said - spare me these inappropriate whataboutism-comparisons. The actions of the Kazhakstan regime do not become less
evil because there are other bad things in the world. If you want to critizise my opinion on Kazhakstan stick to the matter. What I think about Catalunya or Israel is not relevant here at all! If you want to know what I do think about it - ask me on PM or do it in the politics section.
 
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hijirio

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As I said - spare me these inappropriate whataboutism-comparisons. The actions of the Kazhakstan regime do not become less
evil because there are other bad things in the world. If you want to critizise my opinion on Kazhakstan stay to the matter. What I think about Catalunya is not relevant here at all! If you want to know what I do think about it - ask me on PM or do it in the politics section.

Meanwhile the irony of it all -you are the first one to initiate politics when we discuss Kazakhstan's participation in the contest.

Anyways, my personal opinion is that denying Kazakhstan the right to participate will not contribute to the situation in the country. I think that they can learn alot from the contest, and the contest can create a positive social influence in the country which could in the long term serve as a bridge for bringing them closer to European values.

On the other hand, Eurovision will not suffer any damage by allowing them.
 

Sammy

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Meanwhile the irony of it all -you are the first one to initiate politics when we discuss Kazakhstan's participation in the contest.

Anyways, my personal opinion is that denying Kazakhstan the right to participate will not contribute to the situation in the country. I think that they can learn alot from the contest, and the contest can create a positive social influence in the country which could in the long term serve as a bridge for bringing them closer to European values.

On the other hand, Eurovision will not suffer any damage by allowing them.
i have no intention to fight with you, but the only thing that’s ironic about the situation is, that you start every posting by attacking me personally. Always a sign fornweak arguments… I didn‘t „bring politics in“. After what has happened in the last 6 months the question of Kazhakstans participation is inherently a political one.
But if you agree, we can leave it there. I respect your view of things, I just have reason to not share them.
 
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