escYOUnited
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Kazakhstan KAZAKHSTAN 2020 - not taking part
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randajad
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Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2020
Also, to be completely honest I did not know nothing about The Caucasus countries, except that Greek myth about Prometeus, until they started competing at Eurovision; so not very much European from my perspective.
Tbh, I see Turkey completely as an European country. For 500 or so years, Ottoman Empire was the main power in the Balkans, therefore shaping the culture of many of these countries. We share so much history, but not only us, they were big rivals with Austria and Hungary, as well as Russia, for so many years. Also their presence in Balkan countries is still huge today, specially in Bosnia. We have the same cuisine, music, customs and many Turkish loanwords in our lanugages, as well Slavic words in Turkish; also despite some might say, almost the same mentality. So, there’s that.
Armenia, Azerbaijan and Georgia are somehow connected to Europe culturally speaking, but with that matter being pointed out, I can't see how Turkey can be considered more European than Kazakhstan by some people here though.
Isn'ta former colony of
Also, to be completely honest I did not know nothing about The Caucasus countries, except that Greek myth about Prometeus, until they started competing at Eurovision; so not very much European from my perspective.
Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2020
Turkey is not close to Europe anymore (i mean cultrally). Turkey now is getting closer to countries like Kazakhstan, Russia, Azerbaijan etc that culturally have nothing to do with Europe. However Eurovision is not about topic culture so all of them should be welcomed to participate.
Turkey is not close to Europe anymore (i mean cultrally). Turkey now is getting closer to countries like Kazakhstan, Russia, Azerbaijan etc that culturally have nothing to do with Europe. However Eurovision is not about topic culture so all of them should be welcomed to participate.
Mainshow
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Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2020
The thing with Kazakhstan is that it was "not just being part of the Russian empire". Kazakhstan CHOSE to be part of it to prevent itself from becoming part of the Chinese hemisphere back in the 18th century. Unlike, colonies in North Africa, Kazakhstan was a vast country without any city life. It was the Russians who did found cities on Kazakh ground. You should visit Almaty. It's kinda like Kyiv or Yerevan. There's nothing "Asian" about it. It's the biggest city of the country by far and resembles the Kazakh mentality.
Also, the Kazakh people got heavily "russified". Even today, the most spoken language in the cities is Russian. Even people of Kazakh ethnicity speak Russian to each other. It's even very often the case that it's the mother tongue of Kazakh people, especially in the cities and in the Northern part of the country.
Demographically speaking, Kazakhstan is a very diverse country. Even nowadays, more than 1/4 of the country is European (I still think that Kazakh people are European AND Asian - as the country [geographically speaking]): Russians, Germans, Ukrainians, Tartars).
In Alaska, only 1% are of Russian descent (whilst we still have more than 20% Russians living in Kazakhstan) + it's not an independent country so that stating it as an argument isn't really fitting in this situation.
I would argue that New Zealand could also take part (if they want to) but unlike Kazakhstan they aren't geographically European and don't care about Eurovision at all whilst Kazakhstan desperately wants to compete.
Johan Engvall & Svante E. Cornell (Institute for Security and Development Policy) also argue that that Kazakhstan is not partly European based on geography but also on how the state has been created after independence: It is a secular country and share the same European views on the concept of nationality and citizenship.
I didn't argue that Kazakhstan should be seen as a "full" European country but it shares both - European and Asian - characteristics and features.
There's no point of letting Iceland (geographically speaking, partly American), Cyprus (geographically Asian; part is even occupied by an "Asian" country), Turkey (the huge majority of its territory is Asian), Azerbaijan, Israel, Armenia and Georgia participate but prevent Kazakhstan from taking part.
The thing with Kazakhstan is that it was "not just being part of the Russian empire". Kazakhstan CHOSE to be part of it to prevent itself from becoming part of the Chinese hemisphere back in the 18th century. Unlike, colonies in North Africa, Kazakhstan was a vast country without any city life. It was the Russians who did found cities on Kazakh ground. You should visit Almaty. It's kinda like Kyiv or Yerevan. There's nothing "Asian" about it. It's the biggest city of the country by far and resembles the Kazakh mentality.
Also, the Kazakh people got heavily "russified". Even today, the most spoken language in the cities is Russian. Even people of Kazakh ethnicity speak Russian to each other. It's even very often the case that it's the mother tongue of Kazakh people, especially in the cities and in the Northern part of the country.
Demographically speaking, Kazakhstan is a very diverse country. Even nowadays, more than 1/4 of the country is European (I still think that Kazakh people are European AND Asian - as the country [geographically speaking]): Russians, Germans, Ukrainians, Tartars).
In Alaska, only 1% are of Russian descent (whilst we still have more than 20% Russians living in Kazakhstan) + it's not an independent country so that stating it as an argument isn't really fitting in this situation.
I would argue that New Zealand could also take part (if they want to) but unlike Kazakhstan they aren't geographically European and don't care about Eurovision at all whilst Kazakhstan desperately wants to compete.
Johan Engvall & Svante E. Cornell (Institute for Security and Development Policy) also argue that that Kazakhstan is not partly European based on geography but also on how the state has been created after independence: It is a secular country and share the same European views on the concept of nationality and citizenship.
I didn't argue that Kazakhstan should be seen as a "full" European country but it shares both - European and Asian - characteristics and features.
There's no point of letting Iceland (geographically speaking, partly American), Cyprus (geographically Asian; part is even occupied by an "Asian" country), Turkey (the huge majority of its territory is Asian), Azerbaijan, Israel, Armenia and Georgia participate but prevent Kazakhstan from taking part.
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Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2020
Do you mean "political"? - Because socio-culturally, these countries can be classified as European.
At least, Russian culture is definitely, without doubt, European.
Do you mean "political"? - Because socio-culturally, these countries can be classified as European.
At least, Russian culture is definitely, without doubt, European.
Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2020
Yes you are using the correct word.
What i mostly mean is that right now those countries are not free.
Yes you are using the correct word.
What i mostly mean is that right now those countries are not free.
Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2020
This is always something ive been sat on the fence about and not really cared about either way, but by this point it's really starting get boring and obvious the EBU has an agenda. They're in JESC for a 2nd year, and we've got Australia as a permanent member. It's a very poor joke that they're still blocked out of eurovision, honestly my one reservation is that it's fairly likely going to be another nation added to that hot russian diaspora bloc vote and that shit is big enough but that isn't an excuse enough at all to keep them out. They should absolutely be allowed to join ESC and there is no doubt or question in the matter. If we're allowing Australia, Israel, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Georgia & Turkey and also North Africa and a chunk of the middle east if they ever join one day then there is nothing that should stop Kazakhstan. At least they're geographically in Europe partly. which is more than what can be said for 3 of the current regular participants. The EBU only wont allow it as it goes against their clear agenda which Kazakhstan doesn't suit, but Australia, USA etc does.
This is always something ive been sat on the fence about and not really cared about either way, but by this point it's really starting get boring and obvious the EBU has an agenda. They're in JESC for a 2nd year, and we've got Australia as a permanent member. It's a very poor joke that they're still blocked out of eurovision, honestly my one reservation is that it's fairly likely going to be another nation added to that hot russian diaspora bloc vote and that shit is big enough but that isn't an excuse enough at all to keep them out. They should absolutely be allowed to join ESC and there is no doubt or question in the matter. If we're allowing Australia, Israel, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Georgia & Turkey and also North Africa and a chunk of the middle east if they ever join one day then there is nothing that should stop Kazakhstan. At least they're geographically in Europe partly. which is more than what can be said for 3 of the current regular participants. The EBU only wont allow it as it goes against their clear agenda which Kazakhstan doesn't suit, but Australia, USA etc does.
Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2020
Khabar is still a very fresh associate (only since 2016), although whether they aren't yet elected into a regular member is for unknown reasons. 2nd year in JESC is something incredible for a fresh associate member.
Khabar is still a very fresh associate (only since 2016), although whether they aren't yet elected into a regular member is for unknown reasons. 2nd year in JESC is something incredible for a fresh associate member.
Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2020
Even so, I can't help feel that if a country like Azerbaijan tried to join now, instead of back in 2008 they'd face the same hurdles - unless they just used oil money to buy their way in (but then Kazakhstan has greater oil reserves than Azerbaijan and more oil money). There is greater powers at play here.
Even so, I can't help feel that if a country like Azerbaijan tried to join now, instead of back in 2008 they'd face the same hurdles - unless they just used oil money to buy their way in (but then Kazakhstan has greater oil reserves than Azerbaijan and more oil money). There is greater powers at play here.
Sammy
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Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2020
You misunderstood me. What I meant was that colonies were never considered a part of the main country (from the view of the colonizer). There is only one exception to this which is Algeria that was in fact seen as a part of mainland France. It had a different status than for example Tunisia. Algeria was actually 3 french departments. As you certainly know there was this famous saying "La méditerranée traverse la France comme la Seine traverse Paris" (it became even the title of a book). But this is really getting off-topic here.
Being from France, I can absolutely tell you with 100% accuracy that
You misunderstood me. What I meant was that colonies were never considered a part of the main country (from the view of the colonizer). There is only one exception to this which is Algeria that was in fact seen as a part of mainland France. It had a different status than for example Tunisia. Algeria was actually 3 french departments. As you certainly know there was this famous saying "La méditerranée traverse la France comme la Seine traverse Paris" (it became even the title of a book). But this is really getting off-topic here.
Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2020
Come on EBU, what barriers even exist at this point?
Come on EBU, what barriers even exist at this point?
Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2020
Omg the classic heated "iS tUrKeY eVeN eUrOpEan¿" debate
we meet again. It's everywhere on the internet and it usually makes a lot of people have a lot of mixed emotions for some reason
I don't blame you guys XD but I cringe each time I hear people arguing if a country is great enough to belong to "the Europeans".
So let's speak facts:
Countries like Turkey, Kazakhstan, Russia, Georgia all are Eurasian (European and Asian) countries! Aka geographically have in fact significant land on both continents and therefore should not ever be rejected for not 'being European enough'. It doesn't get more European then being inside of the continent lol unless there is a different kind of agenda
There is no way Kazakhstan should be rejected, when Armenia, Azerbaijan and Israel can take part, who are fully Asian countries, not even Eurasian and this is based on geographical facts
Omg the classic heated "iS tUrKeY eVeN eUrOpEan¿" debate
we meet again. It's everywhere on the internet and it usually makes a lot of people have a lot of mixed emotions for some reason I don't blame you guys XD but I cringe each time I hear people arguing if a country is great enough to belong to "the Europeans".
So let's speak facts:
Countries like Turkey, Kazakhstan, Russia, Georgia all are Eurasian (European and Asian) countries! Aka geographically have in fact significant land on both continents and therefore should not ever be rejected for not 'being European enough'. It doesn't get more European then being inside of the continent lol unless there is a different kind of agenda
There is no way Kazakhstan should be rejected, when Armenia, Azerbaijan and Israel can take part, who are fully Asian countries, not even Eurasian and this is based on geographical facts
Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2020
Instagram posts are a hot bed of action over this. I die inside I ever see some random post come up in explore about Europe and Turkey is included because you can bet anything comment number 1 is "turkey isn't europe" and then an onslaught of replies of triggered Turkish people. Comment 2 is usually someone joking about Comment 1 by saying "Srbija isn't Europe".
Omg the classic heated "iS tUrKeY eVeN eUrOpEan¿" debate
Instagram posts are a hot bed of action over this. I die inside I ever see some random post come up in explore about Europe and Turkey is included because you can bet anything comment number 1 is "turkey isn't europe" and then an onslaught of replies of triggered Turkish people. Comment 2 is usually someone joking about Comment 1 by saying "Srbija isn't Europe".
Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2020
This discussion can be stopped on context if we all can agree that every participant of Eurovision is any broadcaster with Regular EBU membership or a lucky Associate member with invitation, but I guess these geographical and cultural arguments would always be hotly debated.
This discussion can be stopped on context if we all can agree that every participant of Eurovision is any broadcaster with Regular EBU membership or a lucky Associate member with invitation, but I guess these geographical and cultural arguments would always be hotly debated.
Himan
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Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2020
Relax people, EBU won't invite Kazakhstan as their view on what qualifies as "Europe" is limited to Australia and it's clear to me the people who are against Kazakhstan entering are ignoring the fact that they are partly in Europe and share EBU's narrow-minded view on what Europe is, it's sad but it is what it is.
Relax people, EBU won't invite Kazakhstan as their view on what qualifies as "Europe" is limited to Australia and it's clear to me the people who are against Kazakhstan entering are ignoring the fact that they are partly in Europe and share EBU's narrow-minded view on what Europe is, it's sad but it is what it is.
Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2020
Not that year, but they will most definitely invite them within a few years, as they're allowed to take part at JESC.
Not that year, but they will most definitely invite them within a few years, as they're allowed to take part at JESC.
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Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2020
Maybe under a new management and supervisory board, I don't see it happen in the foreseeable future as things are looking now though unfortunately, but I like to be proven wrong on that. jESC is a different matter, and it's a concept that plenty of times were on the brink of being cancelled due to lack of interest from both broadcasters and the general public, so I think the EBU are more flexible here simply to keep the project floating so more countries - gives more fees (revenues) and potentially enough viewers to keep things going.
Maybe under a new management and supervisory board, I don't see it happen in the foreseeable future as things are looking now though unfortunately, but I like to be proven wrong on that. jESC is a different matter, and it's a concept that plenty of times were on the brink of being cancelled due to lack of interest from both broadcasters and the general public, so I think the EBU are more flexible here simply to keep the project floating so more countries - gives more fees (revenues) and potentially enough viewers to keep things going.
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Re: KAZAKHSTAN 2020
I would love for to enter just so they can enter this singer and to witness the amazingly cringeworthy awkward situations when hosts and commentators will try to pronounce her first name ... oh and this song is hot! Maruv take some notes !
I would love for
to enter just so they can enter this singer and to witness the amazingly cringeworthy awkward situations when hosts and commentators will try to pronounce her first name ... oh and this song is hot! Maruv take some notes !