Jury - fair or not fair? That's the question.

[simonPL]

Could I open a new topic to discuss about jury votes in general?

To be honest I thought jury can give only points, but they don't do a full ranking.

I mean Poland was 1st in UK's televoting, so got 12 points there and even if we have no points to Poland from UK's jury then some points are recived. BUT, jury created full ranking where Poland is 25th (!), so we ended up at 11th position and got no points. This is not a prostest topic from Poland, but I just want to know your opinions - I mean, Polish case is very good to explain this, but the same things just happened on another votings. Jury sometimes is more political then viewers.

I'll repost results of Poland from My Słowianie topic, see:

Albania – 22 jury
Armenia – 11 jury, 16 televoting
Austria – 24 jury, 3 televoting
Azerbaijan – 11 jury, 12 televoting
Belarus – 8 jury, 5 televoting
Denmark – 18 jury, 10 televoting
Estonia – 26 jury, 17 televoting
FYR Macedonia – 12 jury, 3 televoting
Finland – 24 jury, 11 televoting
France – 15 jury, 3 televoting
Georgia – 13 televoting
Germany – 4 jury, 3 televoting
Greece – 17 jury, 5 televoting
Hungary – 15 jury, 7 televoting
Iceland – 23 jury, 2 televoting
Ireland – 26 jury, 1 televoting
Israel – 18 jury, 12 televoting
Italy – 6 jury, 3 televoting
Latvia – 24 jury, 10 televoting
Lithuania – 24 jury, 4 televoting
Malta – 18 jury, 9 televoting
Moldova – 12 jury, 8 televoting
Montenegro – 7 jury, 11 televoting
Norway – 19 jury, 1 televoting
Portugal – 23 jury, 16 televoting
Romania – 23 jury, 21 televoting
Russia – 24 jury, 13 televoting
San Marino – 23 jury
Slovenia – 10 jury, 14 televoting
Spain – 15 jury, 6 televoting
Sweden – 17 jury, 3 televoting
Switzerland – 18 jury, 7 televoting
The Netherlands – 25 jury, 2 televoting
Ukraine – 8 jury, 1 televoting
United Kingdom – 25 jury, 1 televoting

167 pts from televoters. That would be around 5th place.

Well... do you think Lordi would win once again with jury votes? I don't think so.

 

[Gabe]

Unfair. Sour, sour taste in the mouth after that voting debacle.

 

[Leydan]

Poland only did as well as it did in the televote, mainly because of diaspora voting. The UK and ireland for example have huge levels of polish people living there. All I would do is increase the Juries from 5 members to between 8 & 10.

 

[lucian-crusher]

Unfair:

1. All the Armenian jurors placed on 25th.
2. All the Azeri jurors placed on 25th.
3. All the Moldovan jurors placed on 1st place.
4. All the Belgian jurors placed under 22, because they knew they would win the televoting due to their Diaspora.
5. All the British jurors placed under 22, becase they knew they would win the televoting due to their Diaspora.

 

[watersoup]

What happened to Poland was very unfair. Juries should only rank the top 10, every other song should then be assumed to have tied for 11th. That way, it would be impossible for a song that wins the televote to not get at least 1 point.

 

[Luki]

Decision of pack of people is never a good idea, especially not when they hate originality and different approach to music. :/

 

[simonPL]

Unfair:
5. All the British jurors placed under 22, becase they knew they would win the televoting due to their Diaspora.

Yes, I thought the same one second after we got UK's results. I think the same happened in Ireland and Lithuania.
I know that Polish song is not like a Chopin music, but c'mon...

 

[PashonFrut]

I am pro 50% jury and 50% televoters, but the jury system is flawed and therefor must be changed completely.

 

[tuorem]

Poland only did as well as it did in the televote, mainly because of diaspora voting. The UK and ireland for example have huge levels of polish people living there. All I would do is increase the Juries from 5 members to between 8 & 10.

How can you be sure? Don't you imagine people could like the song and vote for it without having any Polish blood?
I voted for Poland tonight and I'm glad my country gave some points to Cleo. By the way, I'm not Polish.

 

[Luki]

Poland only did as well as it did in the televote, mainly because of diaspora voting. The UK and ireland for example have huge levels of polish people living there. All I would do is increase the Juries from 5 members to between 8 & 10.

But juries are not here to decrease the influence of diaspora voting, they're job is to rank each song for what it is.

 

[Leydan]

How can you be sure? Don't you imagine people could like the song and vote for it without having any Polish blood?
I voted for Poland tonight and I'm glad my country gave some points to Cleo. By the way, I'm not Polish.

I'm not saying it is all down to diaspora, but certainly in several countries listed there diaspora helped tremendously to boost them. I am actually jealous they have such power behind the voting

 

[Leydan]

But juries are not here to decrease the influence of diaspora voting, they're job is to rank each song for what it is.

Then they obviously didn't like it. It wont be the first or the last time the juries and televoting disagree.

 

[Miloutchi]

5. All the British jurors placed under 22, becase they knew they would win the televoting due to their Diaspora.

I think lots of juries placed Poland low. Doesn't have anything to do with diaspora.

As for the rest: I agree, jury voting is unfair (but only in a few countries, I've watched the result of The Netherlands and I think they were quite fair and I believe there are more juries that would vote fair)

 

[lucian-crusher]

Then they obviously didn't like it. It wont be the first or the last time the juries and televoting disagree.

Ok! Maybe the polish song is not something to appeal to the juries, but what about ? They did really well with the juries except for the country in wich they had the highest Diaspora, , where they where place 25th by the jury.....

 

[tuorem]

I'm not saying it is all down to diaspora, but certainly in several countries listed there diaspora helped tremendously to boost them. I am actually jealous they have such power behind the voting

Yeah, I know But they should get back to the 10-song ranking, juries have currently too much power. Maybe they didn't like the Polish entry, but if they only screwed it because they knew the televoting would place it high, then that means the UK jury will never vote for Poland. :?

 

[GermanBango]

I don't think we need to argue about this topic again.
Its good that we have jury's, imho but maybe it would be better if they only have 30% voting power or something like that.

 

[lilka]

How can you be sure? Don't you imagine people could like the song and vote for it without having any Polish blood?
I voted for Poland tonight and I'm glad my country gave some points to Cleo. By the way, I'm not Polish.

What is also worth mentioning is that we are the biggest minority in Iceland, and yet we came 2nd in their televoting.

 

[Leydan]

Yeah, I know But they should get back to the 10-song ranking, juries have currently too much power. Maybe they didn't like the Polish entry, but if they only screwed it because they knew the televoting would place it high, then that means the UK jury will never vote for Poland. :?

Oh I see what you're getting at, I prefer the old system as well tbh. There is more equal power between televote and jury.

Under the old system I think the UK wouldn't have done as well though...

 

[lilka]

Yeah, I know But they should get back to the 10-song ranking, juries have currently too much power. Maybe they didn't like the Polish entry, but if they only screwed it because they knew the televoting would place it high, then that means the UK jury will never vote for Poland. :?

In other words: this is a politically motivated hate towards us from the UK jury (I said jury, I still believe in normal Brits) or at least looks like it.

 

[Daybreak]

Since when does the jury rank all the songs anyway? That's ridiculous.