Juries- keep'em or trash'em?

[nikolay_BG]

^Also the eastern countries invest big time in their acts. Azerbaijan (for example) invested like more then 1 million euro in Safura and they scored well.

Also the eastern countries send familiar faces to the eastern public while BBC (for example) sends idol-rejects in the same time when Greece sends a totally developped superstar like Giorgos Alkaios who is popular not only in Greece, but also in the Balkans.

And in this time from UK we see Josh Dubovie xghost

But we also see when UK sends a good song (like this year), scores well. Where is the politics here?

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Time magazine is American not British :?.

Nikolay, are you forever moaning about Western European countries and the United Kingdom? Why is it you dont like us? =/

 

[AlekS]

No more going personal, please

If I disliked Josh Dubovie, I'm wondering, do I moan too? :twisted:

Anyway, this thread is not about East/West ... tbh this hate-saga is old like mammoth's crap Let's go ON topic.

 

[nikolay_BG]

But the juries were back, because some western countries complaigned that they are underrated. So basicly this is about the east and the west. At least I see it so.

 

[Sabiondo]

But the juries were back, because some western countries complaigned that they are underrated. So basicly this is about the east and the west. At least I see it so.

Yeah.. and don't foget that they do in 70s-80s and 90s with Greece, Turkey, Yugoslavia and Easten Countries when staring on participate.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

It's only West vs East if you make it out to be. It's obviously not the case and I dont think of it that way at all, it was the Big4 who pressed for the Juries, not Western European countries as a whole, and anyway, it was a good rule-change.

 

[CC92]

Indeed. The broadcaster jury is a political instrument that was meant to cant the east/west weights. It comprises other purposes as well beyond only the country flags but in the end it does form the basis of ideological and economic (U.S. American) interests therefore it still could be broken down to the 'east vs. west' issue.

 

[nikolay_BG]

And where is the music in this case?

 

[CC92]

And where is the music in this case?

Nowhere. At best that (mainly Eastern) countries are not to be successful with their cultural music anymore.

 

[nikolay_BG]

Nowhere. At best that (mainly Eastern) countries are not to be successful with their cultural music anymore.

Really. Remember that most of the points that Serbia got in 2007 are mostly from western countries.
Also Ukraine in 2008 or Serbia (and Montenegro) in 2004.

And where did Ireland score in 2007 (which also sent an ethnic irish song)?
Or Norway in 2006?

 

[CC92]

Really. Remember that most of the points that Serbia got in 2007 are mostly from western countries.
Also Ukraine in 2008 or Serbia (and Montenegro) in 2004.

I think the fact even the own people prefered those foreign cultural attempts to ubergeneric pop stuff from their neighbours made the U.S. obsessed western broadcasters even more wroth and decided to change the rules.

And where did Ireland score in 2007 (which also sent an ethnic irish song)?

Well, this song was defenitely not a masterpiece and dreadfully performed on stage. Overall 5 points, nevertheless, was a bit too little IMHO.

 

[Sabiondo]

Really. Remember that most of the points that Serbia got in 2007 are mostly from western countries.
Also Ukraine in 2008 or Serbia (and Montenegro) in 2004.

And where did Ireland score in 2007 (which also sent an ethnic irish song)?
Or Norway in 2006?

And also add Germany 2008 (Who our country saved them from beiging last with BIG FAT 0) thanks cause one of the singers was Bulgarian.

 

[Quent91]

(Who our country saved them from beiging last with BIG FAT 0)

It's often hard to understand what you write.

But anyway, gave them 2 points so they wouldn't have finished last with a "big fat 0".

 

[Salmon]

^ Yes, but they'd have finished last anyway.

 

[nikolay_BG]

And also add Germany 2008 (Who our country saved them from beiging last with BIG FAT 0) thanks cause one of the singers was Bulgarian.

...and that the song was 2 mounths on our prime time every night in the most watched bulgarian TV...

 

[AllThatJazz]

For me, the main reason to keep the juries is to reduce biased votes and thus make the voting more exiting. It's not a question of taste when viewers consequently vote for their neighbours or their native country. You can agree with the taste of the juries or not, but they've made the voting less predictable.

Some examples:

From 2004-2008 Belarus consequently gave their 12 points to Russia. After the introduction of 50/50 they've given 12 points to Norway and Georgia as well.

From 2004-2008 Denmark consequently gave their 12 points to a Nordic neighbour. After 50/50 they've given 12 points to Germany and Ireland.

From 2004-2008 Slovenia consequently gave their 12 points to a ex-Yugoslavian neighbour. After 50/50 they've given 12 points to Norway and Denmark.

From 2005-2009 Ireland gave their 12 points to either Latvia or Lithuania. After 50/50 they've given 12 points to Iceland and Denmark.

From 2004-2008 Netherlands consequently gave their 12 points to Turkey. After 50/50 they've given 12 points to Norway and Belgium.

The juries aren't perfect but I'm convinced that they are far less biased than the viewers. That's why I'm very happy with the 50/50-system - it brought the fun and the surprises back in Eurovision.

(And no, I'm not saying that because the juries have helped Denmark getting higher placings. Actually, I thought it was pretty lame when Iceland and Norway gave 12 points to "All night long" in 2008. I'm convinced that had the song been from e.g. Portugal or Azerbaijan, they've wouldn't have given it more a than a few points).

 

[Sabiondo]

Some examples:

From 2004-2008 Belarus consequently gave their 12 points to Russia. After the introduction of 50/50 they've given 12 points to Norway and Georgia as well.

Don't foget that Alexander Rybak is Belarusian Born. That was the reazon why Belarus was gave their 12 points to Norway in 2009.

 

[CC92]

You can agree with the taste of the juries or not, but they've made the voting less predictable.

Nonetheless in the end still it is 'their taste' (sure?) that does effect the contest's musical approach. Consequently songs are getting more safe, dated, idolised, bland and English year by year. Diversity and cultural sounds are fought but also for chart success competers it is much harder to do well in the combined lists. Something being 'less predictle' in the eyes of an outsider does not equal fairness. Azerbaijani Turkish and Maltese Delegations could do secret dealings for example. Or the Portuguese and the German. And no matter if bribed or biassed, amateurish or professional: decisions of five peope never will be representative. These surprises bring fun to you? I wonder. Apart from this, I did not recognise many high scores that were not forseeable (lower ones never were). Not less than in 2006, 2007 etc.

Some examples:

Times to get your facts right.

From 2004-2008 Belarusconsequently gave their 12 points to Russia. After the introduction of 50/50 they've given 12 points to Norway and Georgia as well.

Twelve points to Norway has nothing to do with 50/50. Georgia is not that much better in terms of voting patterns and seeing the 50/50 points it is unlikely Russia got 12 from televoting in 2011. Probably also 2010's 12 would have gone to another country.

From 2004-2008 Denmarkconsequently gave their 12 points to a Nordic neighbour.

You must refer to Nordics in general and to the finals only.

From 2004-2008 Denmarkconsequently gave their 12 points to a Nordic neighbour. After 50/50 they've given 12 points to Germany and Ireland.

This is the southern neighbour (with national minority group) and another northern European country.

From 2005-2009 Irelandgave their 12 points to either Latvia or Lithuania. After 50/50 they've given 12 points to Iceland and Denmark.

Two aurora borealis having their diaspora there, too.

From 2004-2008 Netherlandsconsequently gave their 12 points to Turkey.

Wrong.

After 50/50 they've given 12 points to [...] Belgium.

That I call a surprising and patternless vote.

The juries aren't perfect but I'm convinced that they are far less biased than the viewers.

How are you to know? Hiding the results for the second year in a row now and NDR's jurors giving top scores to exactly those neighbouring and western entries they have promoted before are good indications it is the opposite way.

 

[nikolay_BG]

The juries are bribed. I can`t find another reason for the talentless unspectacular and boring song and show from Sweden to get 3rd place.

Bribing 5 people is way easier then bribing a whole nation.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Sweden got 3rd place because it was very popular... it was a great song and performance quite obviously. In the Televote, it was second, only 3 points behind Azerbaijan.
Personally I would rather have had Sweden winning, but they didnt, cuz they were marked down by the Juries .