Is Eurovision turning into just another "Idol"-concept contest?

[A-lister]

^

I see your point and I agree there are good singers with non-ballads aswell.

My concern is though when songs are being overlooked and others praised only because of the voice or whatever, I think a combination is the best. I mean most are atleast decent singers, so why would a crappy entry take the spot of a better song in a song contest? To me it doesn't make sense. I can understand it if the live singer totally killed an entry, but thankfully not all are on that level of Krassimir still

I don't think your singer 2008 was bad btw.

 

[nikolay_BG]

^That`s why I don`t like the juries. Some new and cool and fresh songs can be bumped because of the same boring ballad.

 

[A-lister]

^That`s why I don`t like the juries. Some new and cool and fresh songs can be bumped because of the same boring ballad.

Agree 100%

And not that all ballads are necessarily bad and old-fashion, but for some reason in Eurovision most are and the juries seem to love it because of "quality voices".. well maybe they should be juries in Idol then and not Eurovision?

 

[chikos_2011]

im so tired of ppl saying how much they hate the songs this year. and posts like this. you only are comparing it to idol shows, because idol shows are all the rage these days. this is what happens when you have 43 songs.

there are songs you like that have shocking vocals, and it makes you hate the song (example being maybe this year Eric Saade - Sweden)

there are songs that you may hate originally but end up loving once you hear it sung well (example for me would be aloysia last year for ukraine)

there are songs that u may dislike, but the performance makes you enjoy it (example being this years ukraine)

there are so many different reasons to love and hate a song. vocals are just part of them. it doesn't mean we want to go buy their album, but a good vocal can definitley help you enjoy a song better.

at the end of the day, think about it, most people only vote once. these forums might have people making comments like 'i hope they go through cause they have a good voice, even if i don't like the song' but when you think about it properly, that doesn't mean they'll vote for that song. its just speculation and hope.

 

[A-lister]

im so tired of ppl saying how much they hate the songs this year. and posts like this.

If you hated my thread so much why did you bother answer to it then?

Now you don't have to agree with my opinion, but atleast leave the "hate" out of it please.

 

[AlekS]

Agree 100%

And not that all ballads are necessarily bad and old-fashion, but for some reason in Eurovision most are and the juries seem to love it because of "quality voices".. well maybe they should be juries in Idol then and not Eurovision?

Or maybe they should be allowed to have their own taste just like other people ... including televoters, like me for instance
What's old-fashioned for you maybe is not old-fashioned for me, I have the same right to like some entries, just like you , but I don't order/advice anyone how to judge a song.
I can't call ANYONE out of recent ESC top-3s old-fashioned.
Ireland 2010 was a perfect example of what you mean but she finished in the bottom-5.

So you're basically saying that it should NOT be a song contest then?

Yep. It's all about performance on ESC which consists of many many different things and factors.

If I think that there's nobody who fits my taste I'm gonna value and compare separate factors. Yes, awesome vocals too
However they mean nothing if performer is not honest or he/she can't perform it well ie. being able to deliver what you want to say via singing.

If performer is honest and knows how to perform he/she will get my vote. It's simple as that.
If he/she can do that using 2-2.5 or more octaves I'm not gonna treat him/her differently.

 

[nikolay_BG]

Agree 100%

And not that all ballads are necessarily bad and old-fashion, but for some reason in Eurovision most are and the juries seem to love it because of "quality voices".. well maybe they should be juries in Idol then and not Eurovision?

Yes. We have some improvement in ballads I think. Last year the georgian song was everything but boring. The ukrainian ballad this year also stands out from the rest of the ballads.

 

[FallenAngelII]

Actually I think since bringing back the juries the focus is unfortunately even more on just "voices" rather than songs imo.

Based on what evidence?

The juries' 2009 Top 10 included Turkey, Israel and Moldova, neither of which can be classified as powerhouse voices.

Malta's Chiara placed a measelyy 13th, which, granted, is 11 places higher than what the people placed her, but if one can do well by singing a bad song well, she'd be at least Top 10.

Lithuania's Sasha Son ended up in 20th place with less points than that given by the people.

2010 saw the jury place Portugal in 13th place, Norway in 17th, Iceland in 19th and Spain in 20th. If the juries were only concerned about singing, you'd think all of those people would've placed much higher... and that Tom Dice would've been the jury favourite instead of Lena.

You see, the people with big voices that made it into the juries' Top 10 also happened to have songs which appealed to them. In fact, the juries are instructed to focus less on singing ability and more on song quality. Singing ability still counts, but clearly, it's not that big a deal seeing as how Lena managed to win (though by a small margin to Tom Dice).

Out of the songs that made the juries' Top 10, only a few can actually be classified as "dated" and more based on who's singing the songs than the songs themselves. They are the exceptions that prove the rule.

We must also keep in mind that not all juries favour the same songs due to cultural differences. Also, who says it's the same juries every year? The juries that favoured Niamh Kavanaugh last year? It's possible that they were all sacked and replaced for this year's contest due to being blinded by her name and ignoring the fact that she was off-tune and that her song was pants.

^That`s why I don`t like the juries. Some new and cool and fresh songs can be bumped because of the same boring ballad.

And for the bajillionth time, I have to explain that "new, cool and fresh" doesn't necessarily translate to "good".

Seriously, how many of those "new, cool and fresh" songs would you have given more than 10 seconds of your time if you came upon then when channel surfing on the radio, had they never been part of Eurovision?

"New, cool and fresh", especially "New, cool and fresh for Eurovision" doesn't necessarily mean it's good. We've never had, oh, Eurobeat with accompanying Para Para in Eurovision. If I entered with a so-so song, so-so vocals and a so-so stage show, would you whine for an entire year about how unfair it as that I didn't make it? How about, say, Death Metal? Or a mediocre bitpop song? 100% rap song (badly rapped)? Bad reaggaton?

Would you have crusaded for their obviously deserved places in the final simply because they were "new, cool and fresh"? Or would you have gone "meh" and thought that they didn't deserve to make the final because you didn't like them?

See, this is the problem I have with people who complain about "new, cool and fresh" entries not making the final or doing well in the final. Either they're actually making the argument that if your entry is "new, cool and fresh", you automatically deserve to make the final and do well once there or they're just big old hypocrites upset that heir favourite entries didn't make it and cling to "new, cool and fresh" as reasons for why they should have.

Also, how the flying fig was Finland's entry last year "new and original"?! We'd seen and heard it all before! Just never from Finland or in Finnish. Etno in the mother tongue featuring unconventional instruments? Been there, done that. I guess if someone were to rip off the basics of Helena Paparizou's "My Number One" and sing it in Bulgarian, that'd be "new and original", right?

"New and original" my tuchas. People act like we've never seen something like "Työlki ellää" in Eurovisiion before. Ohm really? In 2006, Christine Guldbransen entered Eurovision for Norway singing "Alvedansen" with instances of Norwegian etno, in Norwegian and with a melody featuring traditional Norwegian instruments (on stage).

If we go back further, we'll find many entries with the same concepts. In fact, we'll find entries that kind of sound like "Työlki ellää"!

The jury does NOT give you a fair chance! I wont stop repeating that till somebody finally understands it.

You mean the juries do not give the entries you like a fair chance.

 

[r3gg13]

I wouldn't say that it has become another Idol-ized show. I

If we look back at the history of the song contest, even the recent history we can see an evidence against your claim. 08, 09, and 2010 had winning songs that didn't necessarily have amazing, belty, voices, but they had the whole "song package": a decent voice, good vibe, and a pan-European appeal.

I won't contradict, though, that singers with ballad-friendly voices are present in ESC (and there are 5 this year). However, singers like that have been present in the contest since time immemorial, and they don't "flood" the contest. We still have a good representation of various musical styles and vocals in the contest. There isn't necessarily a skew on Idol-like singers, though this year we do have a good amount of singers who have been in x-factor, idol, etc.

Of course having a great voice is not the be all and end all of ESC, because without a good song, good voices are just random noises. Good voices just help bring out the beauty of songs. For instance, Jestem, Caroban, Feel My Passion, would not sound so great if they didn't have great vocals. Still, songs like Boom Boom, Haba Haba, Popular, and TBAS don't necessarily need "quality" vocals to sound good as songs (those songs being good songs, or not, is another can of worms that I would not like to open).

It's not necessarily true that people don't care about songs anymore because we do, you do. If we only cared about voices, we would not have songs like Finland's entry this year, or like TBAS, or like So Lucky, or like Rusinka... the list goes on and on. Those are still good songs to their proper respect, and people still like them even though the might not have Idol-like vocals.

I personally like ballads and acoustic songs, but I wouldn't pass up good songs from other genres so long as the songs are given justice. Jestem, Caroban, New Tomorrow, and even Lipstick are up in my list of songs that regard well. I think that the whole essence of the song, and the whole vibe of the song is brought out by their performance, their voices and the whole package.

 

[Milos-BC]

I wouldn't say that it has become another Idol-ized show. I

If we look back at the history of the song contest, even the recent history we can see an evidence against your claim. 08, 09, and 2010 had winning songs that didn't necessarily have amazing, belty, voices, but they had the whole "song package": a decent voice, good vibe, and a pan-European appeal.

I won't contradict, though, that singers with ballad-friendly voices are present in ESC (and there are 5 this year). However, singers like that have been present in the contest since time immemorial, and they don't "flood" the contest. We still have a good representation of various musical styles and vocals in the contest. There isn't necessarily a skew on Idol-like singers, though this year we do have a good amount of singers who have been in x-factor, idol, etc.

Of course having a great voice is not the be all and end all of ESC, because without a good song, good voices are just random noises. Good voices just help bring out the beauty of songs. For instance, Jestem, Caroban, Feel My Passion, would not sound so great if they didn't have great vocals. Still, songs like Boom Boom, Haba Haba, Popular, and TBAS don't necessarily need "quality" vocals to sound good as songs (those songs being good songs, or not, is another can of worms that I would not like to open).

It's not necessarily true that people don't care about songs anymore because we do, you do. If we only cared about voices, we would not have songs like Finland's entry this year, or like TBAS, or like So Lucky, or like Rusinka... the list goes on and on. Those are still good songs to their proper respect, and people still like them even though the might not have Idol-like vocals.

I personally like ballads and acoustic songs, but I wouldn't pass up good songs from other genres so long as the songs are given justice. Jestem, Caroban, New Tomorrow, and even Lipstick are up in my list of songs that regard well. I think that the whole essence of the song, and the whole vibe of the song is brought out by their performance, their voices and the whole package.

Great post, I agree on most points!

 

[Mickey]

Eurovision is totally different to Idol/X-Factor in terms of commercialisation. The latter only exists to sell copies of the winner's song and hoover up the participants into the associated record company. Eurovision winners already enter into the contest with their own record deal and sell their songs themselves. ESC doesn't build up personalities over weeks of episodic television in the hope viewers will eventually have their posters on the wall and all buy Alexander Rybak's first autobiography. It's just three minutes, one song, judge it on its own merits.

 

[A-lister]

...

You missed my point. I clearly stated that this was my subjective opinion and people do not have to agree with me.

As for the ballad thingy... turn on any contempoarary radio channel in the western world and you won't hear anything like most of the type of ballads that we get in Eurovision... people are free to like them as much as they want though offcourse and I never said anything differently either, that wasn't my point with this topic. I was just discussing whether or not too much focus is starting to lie on the singers rather than the songs (like in Idol).

So you don't think we have enough Idol shows already? Well that's a personal opinion, I respect that but I think there's room for something else too, not everything has to work as Idol. I like a concept with a Europan SONG contest and I don't see any wrong with it, obviously it works as it's the biggest show so why transform it?

As long as the word "song" will be in Eurovision Song Contest I atleast hope it means SOMETHING. Offcourse a good singer can help a not so good song and a bad singer can make a good song look worse... but again we are not here to find the BEST voice imo (that's what we got Idol kareoke shows for).. we're hear to find the best song basically and like I wrote most singers are atleast decent enough imo.

But if they really eff it up then obviously they are unworthy winners/qualifiers, but so are the ones with BAD songs aswell and this was my whole point. I don't think a good singer should get a free ticket to the final when he/she has a song that doesn't appeal. They are not just put there to deliver a performance, the whole point (contrary to the Idol concept) is that they compete with new songs aswell.

 

[AlekS]

But if they really eff it up then obviously they are unworthy winners/qualifiers, but so are the ones with BAD songs aswell and this was my whole point. I don't think a good singer should get a free ticket to the final when he/she has a song that doesn't appeal. They are not just put there to deliver a performance, the whole point (contrary to the Idol concept) is that they compete with new songs aswell.

It's just your subjective opinion, like you say, and every single person decides for him/herself who's unworthy and who's not.
In my opinion, following your logic all contestants shouldn't qualify.

ps. Your last sentence doesn't make any sense because competing with the new songs is a part of performing ie. delivering their new song.

+ I couldn't care less about the radio. ESC video can gain more than 30 million views on YT. I'd rather watch the live ESC performance than listen to the song. That only-song conception is outdated, imo. ESC is way more than just that. My subjective opinion and people do not have to agree with me.

 

[sannerz]

I think Portugal's result last year just proves that Eurovision isn't turning into an "idol" type of contest.

 

[adnar]

Honestly for me the winning song should be a combination of good vocals, good song and nice performance. I will never vote anyone who can't sing at all. Vocals don't have to be perfect, but they have to be good, especially when the person dances at the same time.

 

[gazzerl67]

I personally think it's niave to think you can separate song from singer from performance and that any winner since the competition began has been a combination of these. Sometimes a better song has lost to a better singer / performance and that will always happen - unless you have the competition judged on paper only and I can't see that making much of a viewing spectacle

 

[A-lister]

It's just your subjective opinion...

Offcourse, that's what we do in here; write our subjective opinions.

 

[A-lister]

I think Portugal's result last year just proves that Eurovision isn't turning into an "idol" type of contest.

I think the opposite: The juries even got the wailing stuff on #2 in the semis!!

 

[AlekS]

Offcourse, that's what we do in here; write our subjective opinions.

Yep, that's what we do here; and I wrote mine.

 

[FallenAngelII]

As for the ballad thingy... turn on any contempoarary radio channel in the western world and you won't hear anything like most of the type of ballads that we get in Eurovision...

Yes, and?

You won't hear anything like the pop presented in Eurovision either. Sweden's "Popular"? Where except in Sweden and a select few Nordic countries would you ever regularly hear songs like it on contemporary radio?

In fact, name 10 entries last year that were contemporary, ballad or not. Eurovision is not a bastion of contemporary Western music (quite self-centered, don't you think, completely discounting Eastern European musical tastes? Or just maybe Iberian musical tastes? Those Portuguese ballads you so derisively refer to as outdated and non-existent on contemporary Western European radio channel, they're alive and well in Portugal). And if it was, it'd be pretty boring.