How will Christer Björkman ruin this year's contest?

[LalehForWD]

[MENTION=4597]Stargazer[/MENTION] ^^ No need to be patronising. "culture relativists" - what is it? Sigh no skip that, I know where this is leading. No, I don't want Eurovision to be a historic costume ebition or a showcase of languages in Europe. Not that I don't like such things. I guess it could be fun and interesting to watch such event like once or twice.

Yes I know some metal band are using their native tongue like for example Faroese, Swedish and Arabic. English speakers thinks it sounds cool. What is it if it's not a gimmick? What could you possibly gain from a text you don't understand? Note that I'm not saying I'm against it, I just recognise it for what it is. I think for example Myrath's oriental tones mixed with phrases of Arabic is amazing. But of course it's a gimmick.

But overall your response is way off topic, marking out words and details. I was merely responding to the assumption "You don't want the Eurovision language rule reinstated? Do you hate your culture and heritage?" In a spirit like taken from some SD pamphlet. Again Christer Björkman is completely irrelevant to these things.

 

[Chorizo]

[MENTION=10594]LalehForWD[/MENTION]

You make it sound as if all languages but English were merely a "gimmick".

 

[LalehForWD]

[MENTION=10594]LalehForWD[/MENTION]

You make it sound as if all languages but English were merely a "gimmick".

Jaha. Why would you think that? I speak Swedish everyday. I can assure you it's not because I want to have a gimmick.

 

[Chorizo]

Jaha. Why would you think that? I speak Swedish everyday. I can assure you it's not because I want to have a gimmick.

Maybe I should have said "songs in all languages but English".

 

[LalehForWD]

Maybe I should have said "songs in all languages but English".

No, I listen to a lot of songs in Swedish. Today I had Darya & Måndagsorkestern on repeat which is Swedish-Finnish band singing in Finnish. If you had read the comments, I was talking about major record labels doing international releases with Swedish artists. These people try to be as professional as possible, put a lot of effort and money in the promotion, aiming globally and I guess mainly hoping for recognition in the US. Do you think American teens think it's cute with a pop song in Swedish? Maybe the first time but already the second song it's an old feature. It's just marketing and have nothing todo with Christer Björkman.

 

[Chorizo]

No, I listen to a lot of songs in Swedish. Today I had Darya & Måndagsorkestern on repeat which is Swedish-Finnish band singing in Finnish. If you had read the comments, I was talking about major record labels doing international releases with Swedish artists. These people try to be as professional as possible, put a lot of effort and money in the promotion, aiming globally and I guess mainly hoping for recognition in the US. Do you think American teens think it's cute with a pop song in Swedish? Maybe the first time but already the second song it's an old feature. It's just marketing and have nothing todo with Christer Björkman.

This makes it sound as if releasing a song in English were more professional than releasing a song in a different language. It's probably commercially more successful but that's not the same as being more professional. Many artists have had a successful international career with songs in different languages. If your target audience is American teenagers, English is obviously the best choice. I think you only look at the commercial aspect here, equaling commercial success with professionalism. For the same reason, Sweden requires its Eurovision entries to be in English. Swedish is not common in international music, that's true, but French, Italian or Spanish, for example, have been much more common. The international music industry isn't limited to western regions like North America and Western Europe. Swedish producers could also target Latin America and release songs in Spanish, for example. There are also songs in other languages that were internationally successful. Gangnam Style certainly wasn't successful because of the language and the language wasn't a gimmick here. The dance was. I don't think it would have been more professional in English.

Last year, a song in Italian won the popular vote, although Italian isn't spoken by most Europeans, so clearly English isn't the only appealing language. Of course, different languages are positioned differently in the international music industry. English is certainly the typical language for bubblegum pop and the Swedish music industry has a strong focus on this genre but that doesn't mean that choosing a different language for international releases is automatically a gimmick.

 

[LalehForWD]

[MENTION=13781]Chorizo[/MENTION] Take no offence now but you seriously need to get out of my face. It's getting beyond annoying. Why are you spinning on this off-topic subject? Who are interested in your misunderstandings of what I said to other people? I tried to answer best I can, what else do you demand? I think it's very clear you try to get a political angel of some kind of nationalistic nature. Fine, go ahead to the political section and start a thread about these things but I refuse to have it here. My interest in the language rule is very minimal.

 

[Dessi]

@LalehForWD: I know EXACLY what you're trying to say. And I agree with everything you've written (in this thread).

 

[Chorizo]

[MENTION=13781]Chorizo[/MENTION] Take no offence now but you seriously need to get out of my face. It's getting beyond annoying. Why are you spinning on this off-topic subject? Who are interested in your misunderstandings of what I said to other people? I tried to answer best I can, what else do you demand? I think it's very clear you try to get a political angel of some kind of nationalistic nature. Fine, go ahead to the political section and start a thread about these things but I refuse to have it here. My interest in the language rule is very minimal.

I wasn't political at all. If you want to misunderstand me now, be my guest.

 

[Franco]

http://wiwibloggs.com/2016/02/23/san-marino-rtv-claims-new-voting-system-is-unacceptable/127735/

I thought that the changes were approved unanimously. Now we find out that SMRTV wasn't even consulted by EBU.

 

[LalehForWD]

[MENTION=9589]Franco[/MENTION] ^^ Regardless of what one may think of it, what has it to do with Christer Björkman? Surely the Do you like the new voting system? thread is more suitable? SVT says they have wanted the new voting system for years, but it wasn't until now EBU decided to support their ideas.

 

[Franco]

[MENTION=9589]Franco[/MENTION] ^^ Regardless of what one may think of it, what has it to do with Christer Björkman?

Björkman is the cause for this series of events, but the responsibility for this is totally on EBU's head.

 

[Mii11]

I can understand your reasoning and to some extent I agree with you. For me as a Swede songs in Swedish do get a deeper meaning and more emotional dimensions. Nice to hear you think Swedish is beautiful. I was just describing the reality in the music business. Also I as a Swede do not watch Eurovision the same way as I would look at for example a football game between Denmark and Sweden or a hockey game against Finland. Most of the time my favourite in Eurovision isn't Swedish, in fact 2011 I hated every point Saade got. So a Swedish win isn't my first priority. I don't even believe a win is essential for the artists and other professional parties involved. Perhaps the type and level of exposure is more important? In any case they try to have a professional approach with their involvement, which in practice mean a song for the international market and thus in the English language.

As a Swede my Swedish language and all the Swedish traditions comes natural to me. It's nothing I'm ashamed of or feel is strange in any way. New habits constantly develops and old is forgotten. Culture isn't isn't a concept you can grasp easily and all people have many different communities they participate in, all developing it's own culture. For me, some of these communities are exclusively Swedish, some are on the internet etc. Reducing this complexity to some symbols and call it "Swedish culture" will never be interesting or true. Typically what they tried in the late 1800s to create fake images of nationalism. If you come to Stockholm you can study Swedish "culture" at Skansen, which can be fun but give of course an ultimately false impression. You say that Swedes are "ashamed" of our "unique culture and language". Nothing could be more wrong. Almost all Swedes are incredibly proud of being Swedes, it just doesn't show in flag waving or singing the national anthem.

Well I suppose there are different concepts of national pride. Perhaps in Sweden the term national pride is understood differently than in the world. This is quite interesting. I don't see though why you can't be proud of your flag,national anthem, etc. These are just symbols, but they are important because they have own unique history. This not only involves countries, but also groups of people (Esperantists, LGBT, etc.) Even during Eurovision you can see people waving flags, including Swedish flags. There is nothing wrong being proud of your own culture, symbols, national language and history. It is wrong though if you think it is superior to other different groups of people.

Back to the topic:
As I suspected, the changes were unilateral by the lovely lot made up of EBU and SVT. Other broadcasters were not involved. I thought EBU stands for European Broadcasting UNION but it seems I was wrong. Meanwhile, the Swedish dictatorship rule in the contest will continue to thrive because no one is going to be bothered by one annoyed small state. Sadly, San Marinese broadcaster is not among the favorites of EBU, just like TRT. Bjorkman is not going to listen because there are more equal countries than San Marino and Turkey...

 

[John1]

Well I suppose there are different concepts of national pride. Perhaps in Sweden the term national pride is understood differently than in the world. This is quite interesting. I don't see though why you can't be proud of your flag,national anthem, etc. These are just symbols, but they are important because they have own unique history. This not only involves countries, but also groups of people (Esperantists, LGBT, etc.) Even during Eurovision you can see people waving flags, including Swedish flags. There is nothing wrong being proud of your own culture, symbols, national language and history. It is wrong though if you think it is superior to other different groups of people.

Back to the topic:
As I suspected, the changes were unilateral by the lovely lot made up of EBU and SVT. Other broadcasters were not involved. I thought EBU stands for European Broadcasting UNION but it seems I was wrong. Meanwhile, the Swedish dictatorship rule in the contest will continue to thrive because no one is going to be bothered by one annoyed small state. Sadly, San Marinese broadcaster is not among the favorites of EBU, just like TRT. Bjorkman is not going to listen because there are more equal countries than San Marino and Turkey...

It's not a question of equity but an economic issue.
San Marinese channel/TV hasn't the same weight as the French broadcaster...
I mean, the influence of SMTV (or SMRTV, don't remember the official name) in this contest is a drop in the ocean whereas the influence of SVT is an ocean which is poured in an other ocean. 3

 

[Mii11]

It's not a question of equity but an economic issue.
San Marinese channel/TV hasn't the same weight as the French broadcaster...
I mean, the influence of SMTV (or SMRTV, don't remember the official name) in this contest is a drop in the ocean whereas the influence of SVT is an ocean which is poured in an other ocean. 3

It doesn't matter. This is Union of broadcasters. As San Marinese Broadcaster is part of it and participates in the contest, it should be involved in making big decisions. Eurovision is supposedly all about coming together, equality and tolerance but it seems this is not true if EBU discriminates certain members because of their size and small financial contribution.

 

[tuorem]

http://wiwibloggs.com/2016/02/23/san-marino-rtv-claims-new-voting-system-is-unacceptable/127735/

I thought that the changes were approved unanimously. Now we find out that SMRTV wasn't even consulted by EBU.

"All points from San Marino should be decided by Valentina Monetta" (seen in the comments) xyeah

 

[LalehForWD]

[MENTION=13275]Mii11[/MENTION] ^^ You said that Swedes are ashamed of their culture, exactly the argument nationalists/populists usually use. I replied that this is completely untrue and a myth, few people are as proud of their country as Swedes. However, being a nationalist isn't exactly cool. TV4 has during many years trying to claim back the Swedish symbols as the flag and the national anthem from the Nazis who abused them in the 80-90s. If you travel in Scandinavia in the summer you'll see the flag everywhere, on every summerhouses, cars, cakes etc. But sure, I guess Swedes have a more relaxed relation to these symbols compared to others. Shouldn't be mistaken for indifference though, I believe national feelings are more subtle. Midsummer feast is much more genuine and important than the national day and the king. You can say there are two sure things that make most Swedes cringe: Patriotism and religion.

This is perfectly OK though

Regarding Christer Björkman and the EBU plot - I give up

 

[John1]

It doesn't matter. This is Union of broadcasters. As San Marinese Broadcaster is part of it and participates in the contest, it should be involved in making big decisions. Eurovision is supposedly all about coming together, equality and tolerance but it seems this is not true if EBU discriminates certain members because of their size and small financial contribution.

It does actually.
EBU didn't even examinate this project with the San Marinese broadcaster.

 

[Dessi]

[MENTION=13275]Mii11[/MENTION] ^^ You said that Swedes are ashamed of their culture, exactly the argument nationalists/populists usually use. I replied that this is completely untrue and a myth, few people are as proud of their country as Swedes. However, being a nationalist isn't exactly cool. TV4 has during many years trying to claim back the Swedish symbols as the flag and the national anthem from the Nazis who abused them in the 80-90s. If you travel in Scandinavia in the summer you'll see the flag everywhere, on every summerhouses, cars, cakes etc. But sure, I guess Swedes have a more relaxed relation to these symbols compared to others. Shouldn't be mistaken for indifference though, I believe national feelings are more subtle. Midsummer feast is much more genuine and important than the national day and the king. You can say there are two sure things that make most Swedes cringe: Patriotism and religion.

This is perfectly OK though

Regarding Christer Björkman and the EBU plot - I give up

Sooo true Laleh!

 

[LalehForWD]

Sooo true Laleh!