Contact us

Can there be a return for real "crazy" entries?

Fluke

Active member
Joined
February 5, 2011
Posts
1,739
Location
Sweden
For many, especially casual fans, the late noughties were the peak of entertainment value. The last years were full of "joke entries" and gimmick-packed, high energy stagings like "Be My Valentine", "Day After Day", and even the 2008 and 2009 winners. But the next decade turned it around, to focus on intimate, personal performances by the singer and slick, stylish stagings rather than crazy visuals and choreography. The "joke entries" also pretty much completely disappeared. I so wonder how something like Sweden's "Fuldans" would have done if it had won the NF!

There's been attempts to go against the norm, of course, but they've mostly ended in the semis, like the ambitious Ivan and Greta in 2016 and Moldova's hilariously over-the-top Eduardo in 2015, but since then there's been a subtle shift. It seems the few extravagantly staged entries in recent years actually tend to make the final, and do decently, which could be a sign of a greater change about to happen.

2017 specifically, was a minor comeback for visually intense stagings, with several entries in the top 10 containing both high-energy dance and wild visual effects. The next year was slightly calmer overall, but both of the top 2, Israel and Cyprus, as well as Czechia's Mikolas on 6th place and Doredos on 10th showed both dance and visual assault can still get top scores.

2019 looked like it would be more subdued, but against the expectations of many, big show entries did pretty well: Switzerland's dance-fest got 4th, and visually spectacular entries from Azerbaijan, Australia and Iceland all made the top 10. Plus Norway actually won the televote, while the staging was pretty simple, the song was pretty "crazy" by current standards. San Marino and Czechia also got their best and second-best results with colorful, high-energy shows.

It seems this minor comeback hasn't really been recognized, neither by mass media or ESC fans, but clearly there's a desire both among viewers and creators for "wilder" entries again.

I'm thinking Australia (Kate Miller-Heidke) and Iceland (Hatari) especially might be the pointer to what's about to happen. Is 2020 gonna be the year that ESC becomes fully crazy again? Though this year's winner might lead the trend in the opposite direction, as i claimed in a previous thread, will we see a bunch of similar stagings, and musically more adventurous entries?
 

Biscuit02

New member
Joined
September 15, 2019
Posts
270
Location
Bulgaria
Honestly, I wouldn't mind if that happens, say what you want about the crazy entries of the 2000s, but atleast they were entertaining, I especially liked 2007 and 2008 so many good songs with crazy stagings for example Moldova 2007 was not only a great song but the staging was also really good, This year I really liked the entries with crazy stagings liek Australia and Iceland, so we will have to wait and see but for me I wouldn't mind it at all.
 

Neo

Member
Joined
June 1, 2016
Posts
205
Sad to think that even if a 'crazy' entry should have the best song, it will automatically be out because of the juries who see it as their job to stamp out that sort of thing.
 

HayashiM

Active member
Joined
January 26, 2019
Posts
1,530
Location
Prague, Czech Republic
Sad to think that even if a 'crazy' entry should have the best song, it will automatically be out because of the juries who see it as their job to stamp out that sort of thing.
Well, I think that Toy is almost as crazy as you can get, yet the juries didn't really go against it, so...
 

Daybreak

Active member
Joined
May 10, 2014
Posts
795
Location
Tallinn
I'm always kinda confused by those Eurovision fans who want more silly entries like the ones from the mid-2000s (this post isn't targeted to Biscuit02 specifically, I've seen quite a few people say something like this and haven't commented on it before), and I wonder whether they've really thought this through or if some of them are maybe too young to have actually experienced it. Seriously, do you really want an entire contest filled with Leto Svets, Verka Serduchkas and turkey puppets? I mean, sure it might be funny or entertaining for a while, but you can honestly just go to an actual circus and watch like a clown perform or something. This show is, after all, supposed to to be a music event. It perhaps feels like such entries could be fun or make the contest more diverse simply because there are so few of them now, but back then they made up like 1/3 of the lineup (and the rest were dated schlager songs and such, mostly). And then of course, lots of countries were disappointed with the state of ESC but reinforced the issue by sending crappy or ridiculous acts themselves.

To an extent, Eurovision is still fighting off this reputation left from that era even though it's significantly changed now (occasional Netta or Ivan notwithstanding) and that's the main reason why lots of established artists and songwriters aren't keen to enter. Not to mention there wasn't really even that much of a "meme culture" or modern social media that could take stuff like "Grandmamma beats the drumma" or whatever and make it seem much greater/funnier than it initially was.

I would, though, distinguish between "gimmicks" that any regular pop artist might use - the "interactive" screens or projection dresses (let alone just somewhat flashy performances/costumes/fireworks like Fuego; different songs demand different staging after all), and ridiculous things more of the "weird ESC entry" kind (the hamsterwheel, the giant guy carrying the singer, unicycles). And the former are probably always going to be present, they can actually add something to the song much like choreography so I don't mind them much. I would predict that the latter will remain as occasional token entries (like how Hatari taking part was tied to this specific contest, held in Israel) unless there's some kind of voting change that emphasizes televoting more, or maybe a social media portion of the voting.
 

Mainshow

Well-known member
Joined
December 23, 2018
Posts
2,530
I'm honestly super grateful that these days seem to be over.
I prefer the 2010's by miles, the reputation of Eurovision has massively improved (even though, we still struggle to be perceived as a music show) and I prefer quality entries. Of course, Eurovision should be a place for everyone and I don't mind a few funny entries (but they should be kept to a minimum).

Thank you, juries. Thank you, Lena. Thank you, Italy for making Eurovision a better place.
 

HayashiM

Active member
Joined
January 26, 2019
Posts
1,530
Location
Prague, Czech Republic
One more thing - I don't really know much about the pre-2009 editions. But I still think, as [MENTION=13826]Daybreak[/MENTION] suggests, we must recognise some differences. There's a difference between a "high energy" (Fuego, Lie to me, She got me...), "joke" (Aven romale, Cake to bake, Luta é alegria, maybe even My lucky day) and "different / weird" (Zero gravity, Telemóveis, Hatrid mun sigra...) entry.
For me, the closest to "Real crazy" from these is "joke". I don't really need more of that (and I count on the juries preventing these from getting a top 10 result).
On the other hand, I don't see anything super crazy about the high energy songs. They are usually fun, but they are not a joke. Just a well produced upbeat pop.
Different /weird ones can get pushed by the juries or not, depending on their quality. Once again, they are unconventional, but they are not a joke.

All in all, I think we get less and less joke (e.g. real crazy) entries. If the other categories are what you guys mean, than I think the juries are quite ok with these and I don't see why they shouldn't. Maybe we'll get more or less high energy / "different" songs based on the year, but the juryvote won't influence this as much.

(I also think that to reduce the amount of joke entries, a 1/3 juryvote weight would suffice, but that is a topic for some different thread.)
 

anaraqueen

Well-known member
Joined
March 3, 2018
Posts
7,277
Location
come to brazil
I'm always kinda confused by those Eurovision fans who want more silly entries like the ones from the mid-2000s (this post isn't targeted to Biscuit02 specifically, I've seen quite a few people say something like this and haven't commented on it before), and I wonder whether they've really thought this through or if some of them are maybe too young to have actually experienced it.
I can just reply this one stating my reason. Other people who loves the 00s can think differently.

I like entries who achieve what they want to do. Joke entries have their objectives. They can be fun, they can be critical. If an entry who wants to be fun makes >me< (emphasis on me) have fun, I'll like and support it. And most of the so called joke entries manages do to so with me. That's why I like them so much. And 2008, being the year with the most joke entries (as far as i recall), is one of my all time favorites.

And there is a thing some people say that I hate: this entry is not suited for eurovision. Not only for joke acts, but to songs of, let's say different genres. This shouldn't happen. Every genre should be "suited" for the contest. An, let's say, experimental noise music is not "less music" (ughhh) than a commercial pop song. Both have their place and their public. Also I hate it when people say "joke" entries are the reason some people don't take the contest seriously while I personally think tanking out of the box genres in favor of commercial pop songs and ballads, """""real music""""" speeches and (controversy!) saying it's a contest with no politics does more damage than that.

Also there is something I disagree about what you said: Eurovision is not only or mainly a music contest. Performance is equally as important. No wonder many great songs have fallen because of a bad performance; staging lifting songs; even songs winning mostly because of a great staging (mans and marie n comes to mind) - and that is not a problem! a good staging doesn't mean a crazy performance, but something that suits the song. Amar Pelos Dois had a simple staging that worked pretty well. On the other hand, Toy tried to go crazy and the staging didn't look so good - despite winning the whole thing. the ideal situation is song and staging working well together and mattering equally. of course it doesn't happen every time, but well, life goes on.
 

EDC0708

Active member
Joined
January 12, 2014
Posts
2,868
Would like to see these types of songs return. I think the main reason they have disappeared is that broadcasters think they will score low with juries, it would only take one comedic entry doing well again to see them return, if a broadcaster is brave enough to send one.
 

Sammy

Active member
Joined
February 1, 2014
Posts
6,250
What I'm going to say refers to entries like Dustin, Leto Sven, Alf Poier, Baila Chicki, Anti-Crisis Girl, I'm a joker, Rambo Amadeus, Laka and so on. I know that they have their public and it's a good thing that there are people who enjoy this and have a good time with it. But personally I didn't find them funny or entertaining. They were so desperately and hysterically trying to be funny or "different" for the sake of being different, that they deeply annoyed me. And I don't wish to have those days back when they were pushed even into the finals. I don't say, they have to place in the ESC, but it got a bit too overcrowded in the "funny" section those days.

This being said, I still find a lot of joke, queer, weird, funny - you name it - acts nowadays in the contest but even if I don't like all of them , they have a quality that I can acknowledge. They are not that bland (yes, joke entries can be VERY bland) as a lot of those that we had with no juries.
The dichotomy juries' taste - boring, publics taste - entertaining is something I can't see. It's as false as the assumption that ballads are automatically pushed by juries or that juries are a kind of "grey"-vote against the "young" public. All of these opinions I read a lot in different blogs, but when I look closer at the examples that are given to back up these opinions it all comes down to: "the juries didn't like what I personally liked, so I'm mad at them." followed by rationalizing why it's not a matter of taste but rather some conspiracy of corrupt, old, boring "professionals", going sometimes even as far as to make a question of democracy out of that. Which - in my view - is a deep misunderstanding of the notion of democracy, but that's a different issue.
 

BorisBubbles

Well-known member
Joined
January 21, 2019
Posts
2,013
Location
Tumblr, mostly.
Yes. We'll still get them. Fewer of them, but that's actually better. Makes the few insane entries we get more special.
 

Loindici

Active member
Joined
June 5, 2019
Posts
1,095
Location
is currently unknown due to lack of Schlager
I'm open to crazy entries returning, but I want it entertaining and relevant.

No more things like "Irelande Douze Points", "Luta e Alegria", Izabo's "Time", or a lot of those we have in 2006,

but more awesomeness like "Hatriđ Mun Sigra", "Igranka", or of course "Dancing Lasha Tumbai", is welcomed.
 

Daybreak

Active member
Joined
May 10, 2014
Posts
795
Location
Tallinn
I can just reply this one stating my reason. Other people who loves the 00s can think differently.

I like entries who achieve what they want to do. Joke entries have their objectives. They can be fun, they can be critical. If an entry who wants to be fun makes >me< (emphasis on me) have fun, I'll like and support it. And most of the so called joke entries manages do to so with me. That's why I like them so much. And 2008, being the year with the most joke entries (as far as i recall), is one of my all time favorites.
Fair enough, I guess. As long as being "fun" isn't your only criteria that you're looking for in a song :p

And there is a thing some people say that I hate: this entry is not suited for eurovision. Not only for joke acts, but to songs of, let's say different genres. This shouldn't happen. Every genre should be "suited" for the contest. An, let's say, experimental noise music is not "less music" (ughhh) than a commercial pop song. Both have their place and their public.

This I very much agree with, we definitely need more variety in genres. Eurovision could be way more representative of the world of music - of course many people outside of "typical pop" - rappers/rock bands/DJ's/etc. don't have interest in the contest because of that same reputation as silly fluff and not a "genuine" music platform. Them keeping out more diverse (if lesser known) artists is actually my main concern about these image issues (and not something like wanting to see Adele or other big UK acts at Eurovision).

Also there is something I disagree about what you said: Eurovision is not only or mainly a music contest. Performance is equally as important. No wonder many great songs have fallen because of a bad performance; staging lifting songs; even songs winning mostly because of a great staging (mans and marie n comes to mind) - and that is not a problem! a good staging doesn't mean a crazy performance, but something that suits the song.
There is indeed a huge focus on performance in Eurovision, and for me personally, it's definitely overdone. I don't get the logic that things like costumes or effects are as important as the song, and since live music is banned and the reliance on hidden backing singers for vocals, all that non-music stuff has an unbalanced impact on a song's reception. That being said, I do of course recognize that people have different tastes - I, for example, grew up mostly just listening to radio so I don't need or expect songs to be accompanied by music videos or other visuals, and my background in electronic music means I care less about live performances and prefer the studio versions.
 

Daybreak

Active member
Joined
May 10, 2014
Posts
795
Location
Tallinn
They were so desperately and hysterically trying to be funny or "different" for the sake of being different
There was one other weird thing that I noticed back then - that some of those songs were basically trying to mock / troll the contest by being deliberately bad (like Dustin and Kreisiraadio) but were instead treated by lots of people as legitimate entries that just sucked. I guess that just goes to show how weird Eurovision was at the time.


The dichotomy juries' taste - boring, publics taste - entertaining is something I can't see. It's as false as the assumption that ballads are automatically pushed by juries or that juries are a kind of "grey"-vote against the "young" public. All of these opinions I read a lot in different blogs, but when I look closer at the examples that are given to back up these opinions it all comes down to: "the juries didn't like what I personally liked, so I'm mad at them." followed by rationalizing why it's not a matter of taste but rather some conspiracy of corrupt, old, boring "professionals", going sometimes even as far as to make a question of democracy out of that. Which - in my view - is a deep misunderstanding of the notion of democracy, but that's a different issue.
Exactly! I find it hilarious when people's complaining about Eurovision results (which is perfectly fine in itself) turns essentially into a mild version of that "shady elites are oppressing the common people and we must take back control" argument that both the far left and far right have used to gain supporters.
 

anaraqueen

Well-known member
Joined
March 3, 2018
Posts
7,277
Location
come to brazil
Fair enough, I guess. As long as being "fun" isn't your only criteria that you're looking for in a song :p




This I very much agree with, we definitely need more variety in genres. Eurovision could be way more representative of the world of music - of course many people outside of "typical pop" - rappers/rock bands/DJ's/etc. don't have interest in the contest because of that same reputation as silly fluff and not a "genuine" music platform. Keeping out more diverse (if lesser known) artists is actually my main concern about these image issues (and not something like wanting to see Adele or other big UK acts at Eurovision).



There is indeed a huge focus on performance in Eurovision, and for me personally, it's definitely overdone. I don't get the logic that things like costumes or effects are as important as the song, and since live music is banned and the reliance on hidden backing singers for vocals, all that non-music stuff has an unbalanced impact on a song's reception. That being said, I do of course recognize that people have different tastes - I, for example, grew up mostly just listening to radio so I don't need or expect songs to be accompanied by music videos or other visuals, and my background in electronic music means I care less about live performances and prefer the studio versions.
It's not, just an example :lol: I've liked obectively worse songs because they were meant to be fun and I had fun, though.

Yes. Love me some commercial pop, but I'd love seeing more electronic music (In all styles, from house to hardcore, with trance and noise in between), more metal, more electro swing, more rap, eurobeat for once, but that's really hard considering how juries tank these entries to benefit commercial pop and ballads. See Igranka flopping, AWS almost flopping, Hatari doing way worse with juries, etc. If they don't open their minds, this reputation won't change.

Maybe it's how we grew up differently. My childhood was all about watching pop divas and her performances on tv, that's why I still value performance that much, I suppose.
 

Fluke

Active member
Joined
February 5, 2011
Posts
1,739
Location
Sweden
Whoa, with only 5 or 6 entries now, 3 of them a level of crazy we haven't seen for a decade - Czechia, Australia and Latvia - it's already looking like that's the way it's going. Clearly the success of Kate Miller-Heidke and Hatari, and the attention Conan Osiris got is the inspiration for these selections. Can't wait to see how the rest of this year's entries will turn out!
 
Top Bottom