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Block voting - It's getting worse

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FallenAngelII

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The block voting is getting worse and worse for every year, but contrary to what Western Europeans keep complaining about, it's Western Europe who does it more!

The Western European nations have gone into a routine of pretty much voting exclusively for their neighbours. Pretty much every single Western European 8-12:er will go to a neighbours, or, sometimes, another Western European nation who's close to the geographically. And they always vote for the same neghbours.

At least the Eastern European nations are more unpredictable. Many Eastern European 8-12:ers go to non-neighbours and Western European nations. And those that do go to neighbours or other Eastern European nations are not always easy to predict.

Like last night, when, I believe, it was Iceland's turn to vote and none of the 1-7 pointers were given to Denmark, Sweden or Finland. Anyone with half a brain knew that 8-12 would go to those three nations. Finland jumped from nul points (after, like, 8 countries have voted, IIRC) to 12.

People keep saying crap like "Russia can enter with **************************************** and will still keep getting 12 points from X, Y and Z nations". Really? Because out of 43 voting nations, Russia didn't receive a single 12-pointer last night, not even from Belarus!

The Iberian Peninsula are just as bad as the Nordic nations. France, Spain and Portugal always award each other 8's, 10's and 12's.

You know why this is bad? Because say that X-Eastern European block routinely award each other high marks. Well, those same entries getting high marks from other Eastern European nations are at least given marks from other Eastern European nations outside of their block and also from the Western European nations.

Azerbaijan, Ukraine, Bosnia and Georgia, last night's Eastern European Top 10's, while they received a lot of points from their neighbours, they at least received a whole bunch of points from Western European nations and non-neighbours in the same hemisphere.

* Finland ended up with 21 points, every single one of which came from neighbouring countries, if I recall correctly (there might've been 2-3 or so points that came from outside of the Nordic block). And I believe 10 or 20 of those came from 10-pointers. For shame, Nordic Mafia, for shame.
* Spain ended up with only 50 points, mostly ignored by Western and Eastern nations alike. They got 2 12-pointers from within the Iberian peninsula.

And those are just the 12-pointers. It gets much worse if one goes in for an even closer look, at the 10-pointers and 8-pointers.

Block voting is rampant and getting worse by the year, but not because of the Eastern European nations but because of the Western European nations. You can argue that Western Europe might be less inclined to enjoy Eastern European music, but then we still get slapped in the face with examples like Finland and Spain's high marks from last night.

Because you know what, at least the Eastern European nations who get high marks from neighbours and other Eastern European nations still get points from the Western European nations... and pretty much not a single recipient of a 12-pointer in Eastern Europe was otherwise largely ignoerd by the rest of Europe, Western or Eastern!

Nordic nations, I am ashamed of how you voted last night. At least Finland had the decency to keep up its history of not awarding the other Nordic countries high marks and Sweden had the decency to give our 12-pointer to Ireland.
 
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Joyride

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Thank you, FallenAngel - I think you're totally right. We complain about the Eastern countries block voting but don't we all vote for our neighbours? France and Belgium as well as Germany and Austria, Spain or Prtugal, Ireland & Uk... name any country and you'll see there's almost no country who doesn't get points from a neighbour country. Not only due to "neighbour favors" but also because they have a smiliar taste of music. So I can't see any notecable block voting this year. Not this year. I was ashamed of the crowd booing when some countries voted for their neighbour countries.
 

Rusch

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I wonder wether Italy might have won with a completely fair voting. For sure it would have been a more close result.
 

Grinch

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I loved how German audience booed 12 pts betwen Cyprus - Greece & Macedonia - BIH, but not 10 pts btw Austria - Germany & 12 pts for Germany - Austria!
 

seb89

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France and Belgium
xrofl3xrofl3

That's not block voting. It's the first time in years, we gave high points to our neighbours, because the countries of our immigrants: Armenia, Turkey,... didn't reach the final otherwise they would the 10 and 12 pointer & France had a really good song! A really good one!

Last year O points, year before 1 point,... and so on. So giving an occasionly 12 pointer to our neigbour makes US shamefull :p! Lol give me a break...
 
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Sean

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I loved how German audience booed 12 pts betwen Cyprus - Greece & Macedonia - BIH, but not 10 pts btw Austria - Germany & 12 pts for Germany - Austria!
Well Germany wouldn't boo themselves I guess :mrgreen: Hypocrites :lol:
 

Quent91

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xrofl3xrofl3

That's not block voting. It's the first time in years, we gave high points to our neighbours, because the countries of our immigrants: Armenia, Turkey,... didn't reach the final otherwise they would the 10 and 12 pointer & France had a really good song! A really good one!

Last year O points, year before 1 point,... and so on. So giving an occasionly 12 pointer to our neigbour makes US shamefull :p! Lol give me a break...
agree, we gave only 1 to Patricia and 0000 to Jessy. This time, 12 were deserved !
 

FallenAngelII

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That's not block voting. It's the first time in years, we gave high points to our neighbours, because the countries of our immigrants: Armenia, Turkey,... didn't reach the final otherwise they would the 10 and 12 pointer & France had a really good song! A really good one!
Yet no one in Europe thought France worthy of 10 or even 8 points. Seriously, France picked up only low points from a few countries and then those two 12-pointers from its neighbours.

"Sognu" was a good song in its own right, but best of the night as a live performance? Hardly.

I wonder wether Italy might have won with a completely fair voting. For sure it would have been a more close result.
Considering the fact that Italy got 4 12-pointers, 3 of which came from block neighbours, I doubt it. Azerbaijan, meanwhile, got 3 12-pointers, only 1 of which came from a neighbour (Russia).

I do believe that Italy would still have gotten 2nd, because Sweden got many 8-10-marks from neighbours.
 
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MyHeartIsYours

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I agree that bloc voting is getting worse and worse - last night seemed to be like 2007 or one of those years at times. I agree that it occurs in both Western Europe and Eastern Europe but the fact that the two Eastern blocs, ex-Yugoslavian and ex-USSR, have so many countries within them, it affects the overall result quite dramatically. Western blocs tend to be bilateral exchanges (2 countries like France and Belgium and United Kingdom and Ireland) which of course doesnt make them any more excusable but just means that the affect on the overall result is much less - the same goes for Greece and Cyprus even though it is extremely wrong of them to always do it! The Scandinavian bloc closely follows the two Eastern ones in terms of voting power and that is just as unacceptable although there seemed to be significant gaps in it last night eg Sweden's 12 to Ireland.
As I stated in another thread, political voting has been successfully combated and that isnt a problem really at all any more - that's proven because for instance United Kingdom got points from the vast majority of countries but then where the bloc voting comes into play, it means that our chance of true success (top 5) is extremely limited because we get 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7's but get knocked out of the top places in many countries because they go to their neighbouring countries.
I mean there is substantial evidence of this last night affecting the result:
Ex-USSR
ARMENIA - Russia 8, Georgia 10, Ukraine 12.
GEORGIA - Azerbaijan 8, Ukraine 10, Lithuania 12.
UKRAINE - Russia 8, Azerbaijan 10, Georgia 12.

Ex-Yugoslavia
BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA - Serbia 10, Bosnia and Herzegovina 12.
MACEDONIA - Serbia 8, Slovenia 10, Bosnia and Herzegovina 12.
SERBIA - Slovenia 10, Bosnia and Herzegovina 12.

People get offended I know when people from countries such as my own say about bloc voting and the likes but there's no need to be. There's a problem and it needs to be dealt with because it just ruins the fun when it's so predictable. I dont really get why it happens because there's nothing fun about knowing where a countries points are going and then being proven right. It's just disappointing.
 

seb89

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Yet no one in Europe thought France worthy of 10 or even 8 points. Seriously, France picked up only low points from a few countries and then those two 12-pointers from its neighbours.

"Sognu" was a good song in its own right, but best of the night as a live performance? Hardly.
Azerbaijan was the best, just like Sweden, there voices were sooooo good and pure!

Seriously, we give once high points to our neighbours and bam, WE do blocvoting. Other years, almost our entire votes flew over the Berlin wall. When we needed to give our twelve pointer yesterday, I thought again, ow damn it's not gonna be France and I'm so happy we did give it to France!
 
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FallenAngelII

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I agree that it occurs in both Western Europe and Eastern Europe but the fact that the two Eastern blocs, ex-Yugoslavian and ex-USSR, have so many countries within them, it affects the overall result quite dramatically. Western blocs tend to be bilateral exchanges.
But you see, as I said, while the Eastern European nations often award each other high marks, the countries which they award high marks are not always predictable. Armenia doesn't always give Russia high marks, for instance. Latvia does not always give Estonia high marks. However, the Eastern European countries share a common history, both culturally and musically.

Take a look at Bosnia & Herzegovina's "Love In Rewind", for instance (coming in 6th). I'm guessing that the reason why it did so well was because of its theme, the fact that he's a huge star in home region and the fact that it was a Balkan-tinged ballad. It's not like Bosnia & Herzegovina is known to always do well at Eurovision. Last year, they only managed to get a 17th placement.

Meanwhile, "Blue's" entry was typical boyband material. Sung by two good to OK singers and tone blah singer and one who didn't even have any solo parts, IIRC. They didn't really mash that well together vocally and the stage show was pretty bland. I think they only did as well as they did because of the voters who like boybands. It's not a general bias against the U.K. or a lack of block voting favouring the U.K., it's that the U.K. entry was just too niche. It would only do well with specific groups of people.

Meanwhile, an entry like Azerbaijan's "Running Scared" was something that was Western enough to gain Western European support, butt still not completely foreign to Eastern tastes.

As I said, Eastern European block voting is mostly due to heritage and tastes. Speciific genres often get favoured instead of specific nations. Western European block voting, however, is all about nations. Unless a neighbouring county's song sucks, the Nordic countries will always reserve high marks for it.

Azerbaijan was the best, just like Sweden, there voices were sooooo good and pure!
Live performance is more than vocals. If it was all about live vocals, Lithuania and Slovenia would've both been Top 3.

Amaury's live performance was him standing completely still singing, then randomly walking around for a bit, rushing back and standing still while singing some more.

Unless you're sold on opera, his voice, his charisma or the song itself, it's not very exciting to watch. It might be fun to listen to, but not to watch.

Seriously, we give once high points to our neighbours and bam, WE do blocvoting. Other years, almost our entire votes flew over the Berlin wall. When we needed to give our twelve pointer yesterday, I thought again, ow damn it's not gonna be France and I'm so happy we did give it to France!
For 2010 and 2011, Belgium's taken part in some blatant block voting, accidental or on purpose.
 
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LakZaNokte

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The Scandinavian bloc closely follows the two Eastern ones in terms of voting power and that is just as unacceptable although there seemed to be significant gaps in it last night eg Sweden's 12 to Ireland.
scandinavian block is much worse than ex-yu block. check out the history of voting for both of these blocks and u'll see.
to me, this sound like "they are all the same, but scandinavians are still better cause *insert some reason other than real numbers*". prejustices and stereotypes.
btw, last year we gave 12 pts to turkey and this year 12 went to slovenia (ok, also ex-yu but that wasn't the "obvious" choice + that was the first 12 for slovenia since we entered esc as 2 countries)
our chance of true success (top 5) is extremely limited because we get 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7's but get knocked out of the top places in many countries because they go to their neighbouring countries.
every1s chances are compromised with block voting.
for example, next year we send a really good song. we get points from ex-block. however, somebody from both ex-sssr and scandinavia also has a good songs (or not!) and those blocks ruin our chance for winning cause they still give biggest points to their neighbors.
so yes, blocks suck for every1.
 

doddy13

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I noticed it from both sides last night. Everyone is as bad as each other, nobody can really complain either way. I hate bloc voting but it's going to be very tough to stop it from happening.
UK gives 12 to Ireland a lot. (I think this year it was just as Jedward are very well known here due to X Factor).
Ireland usually gives UK high points.
Spain usually gives France high points, and France gives spain high often.
San Marino gave 12 to Italy, hardly suprising.

I always vote for the song I like best, i'm in the UK but have voted in the past for Azerbaijan, Finland, Germany, Norway, France etc etc.

(as a side note and very slightly off topic I was a bit suprised Azerbaijan won, I personally think it's their weakest song yet, I have usually liked their songs)
 

seb89

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For 2010 and 2011, Belgium's taken part in some blatant block voting, accidental or on purpose.
Where do you see bloc voting? The points we gave to Germany (winning song last year)? The ones to Turkey/Armenia/Azerbaijan/Albania/Romania? Or are you refering to West-Europe in general? Cause if you look closely we give once Iceland some points, Spain a point, few points to Denmark...
 

EvNickGR

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I loved how German audience booed 12 pts betwen Cyprus - Greece & Macedonia - BIH, but not 10 pts btw Austria - Germany & 12 pts for Germany - Austria!
That! And i will tell again...there are so many countries that vote each other, Greece and Cyprus were booed, and in fact they are like 1 country!
 

gemmar

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definitely block voting with ukraine, still confused how that deserved to come 4th.

edit: and moldova, seriously, worst song this year.
 
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seb89

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That! And i will tell again...there are so many countries that vote each other, Greece and Cyprus were booed, and in fact they are like 1 country!
Other ones where booed too. Almost every country that gave points to it's neighbour was booed.
 

FallenAngelII

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Where do you see bloc voting? The points we gave to Germany (winning song last year)? The ones to Turkey/Armenia/Azerbaijan/Albania/Romania? Or are you refering to West-Europe in general? Cause if you look closely we give once Iceland some points, Spain a point, few points to Denmark...
Western Europe. Belgium's high marks for 2010 and 2011 went almost exclusively to Western Europe. One can argue tastes, song quality and coincidence. I'm just saying:
You can't really complain about Western Europe.

And I personally think Belgium's 12 to France this year was at least partially influenced by block voting.
 

seb89

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I'm not complaining about the bloc vote, it was just like Belgium-France was used an example, was a bit strange.

I agree that there is blockvoting and I agree with what you say about Western Europe will even give points to each other even if the song is bad, although I haven't seen that yesterday actually :s. But you can't deny either, that most votes of ex-USSR will stay within the ex-USSR. The highest points will not go to the same country every year, but it was predictable yesterday which countries would receive 8, 10 or 12 points, while the West-European countries, Scandinavia, Baltic States and even ex-Yougoslavia suprised me a bit with their voting.
 
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