Kaz
Well-known member
- Joined
- January 12, 2014
- Posts
- 2,082
Changes between semi and grand final
Of course everyone's taste can change and develop over time, but can a jury member's opinion really change that much in less than a week? These are all of the times when a jury member placed a country within their final TOP 10, but also voted for that same country to be an NQ in their semi-final. These also include whenever a juror placed a country 1-3 in the semi, but 20th or lower in the final. Some of these are quite minor, but still interesting nevertheless.
Some results, highlighted in red, are those which I believe may indicate that a juror has accidentally reversed some or all of their rankings.
Albania
Juror A:
(13th in semi, 6th in final)
Australia
Juror D: (1st in semi, 25th in final), (15th in semi, 5th in final)
Austria
Juror A: (13th in semi, 9th in final)
Azerbaijan
Juror E: (13th in semi, 2nd in final)
Bulgaria
Juror A: (11th in semi, 7th in final)
Juror C: (12th in semi, 7th in final)
Juror D: (13th in semi, 8th in final)
Juror E: (13th in semi, 10th in final)
Cyprus
Juror E: (13th in semi, 10th in final), (12th in semi, 7th in final)
Estonia
Juror C: (11th in semi, 9th in final)
France
Juror B: (1st in semi, 23rd in final) (15th in semi, 1st in final) (14th in semi, 7th in final), (12th in semi, 4th in final)
Germany
Juror A: (11th in semi, 8th in final)
Juror E: (13th in semi, 6th in final)
Greece
Juror C: (13th in semi, 3rd in final)
Ireland
Juror D: (11th in semi, 4th in final)
Juror E: (15th in semi, 8th in final)
Israel
Juror D: (14th in semi, 7th in final)
As a national jury, Israel also ranked Azerbaijan 14/15 in the semi final, but 9/25 in the grand final.
Italy
Juror A: (13th in semi, 6th in final)
Juror B: (12th in semi, 7th in final)
Juror E: (13th in semi, 5th in final)
Malta
Juror A: (13th in semi, 10th in final)
Juror B: (3rd in semi, 23rd in final)
Juror C: (15th in semi, 2nd in final), (14th in semi, 5th in final), (11th in semi, 10th in final)
Juror D (12th in semi, 8th in final)
Moldova
Juror B: (2nd in semi, 22nd in final), (13th in semi, 10th in final)
Juror E: (2nd in semi, 16th in final), (12th in semi, 7th in final)
As a national jury, Moldova also ranked San Marino 2/16 in the semi final, but 13/25 in the grand final
Netherlands
Juror B: (11th in semi, 6th in final)
North Macedonia
Juror B: (15th in semi, 6th in final)
Juror C: (15th in semi, 8th in final)
Juror D: (12th in semi, 6th in final)
Poland
Juror A: (2nd in semi, 24th in final), (14th in semi, 4th in final), (13th in semi, 2nd in final)
Juror B: (11th in semi, 7th in final)
Juror E: (13th in semi, 2nd in final), (11th in semi, 10th in final)
As a national jury, Poland also ranked Greece 1/16 in the semi final, but 15/26 in the grand final.
They also ranked Portugal 10/16 in the semi final, but 3/26 in the grand final.
Romania
Juror A: (2nd in semi, 21st in final), (13th in semi, 8th in final)
Juror D: (14th in semi, 9th in final)
Russia
Juror C: (11th in semi, 8th in final)
Juror D: (12th in semi, 5th in final)
San Marino
Juror C: (15th in semi, 6th in final), (12th in semi, 9th in final)
Juror D: (16th in semi, 10th in final), (14th in semi, 8th in final)
Juror E: (2nd in semi, 24th in final)
Serbia
Juror A: (12th in semi, 9th in final)
Slovenia
Juror C: (13th in semi, 8th in final)
Sweden
Juror D: (11th in semi, 10th in final)
Ukraine
Juror A: (11th in semi, 9th in final)
Juror D: (13th in semi, 9th in final)
Juror E: (14th in semi, 8th in final), (12th in semi, 10th in final)
OVERALL, I believe there is some sort of big bloc between Bulgaria, Greece, Moldova, Poland, Portugal and San Marino. One (or all) of these countries had an influence in the jury votes of the other(s).
In my opinion there is also some evidence that Azerbaijan has influenced the jury votes of Israel and Russia for the grand final. They also may have done something with Malta's votes in the semi only.
Lastly, I believe there is some evidence that the individual jury members of certain countries have colluded with each other to develop a more similar national ranking (or perhaps they just all think the same way...). The most glaring examples that spring to mind are Belgium, Bulgaria, Georgia (semi), Israel, Italy, and North Macedonia.
Of course everyone's taste can change and develop over time, but can a jury member's opinion really change that much in less than a week? These are all of the times when a jury member placed a country within their final TOP 10, but also voted for that same country to be an NQ in their semi-final. These also include whenever a juror placed a country 1-3 in the semi, but 20th or lower in the final. Some of these are quite minor, but still interesting nevertheless.
Some results, highlighted in red, are those which I believe may indicate that a juror has accidentally reversed some or all of their rankings.
Albania
Juror A:
(13th in semi, 6th in final)Australia
Juror D:
(1st in semi, 25th in final), (15th in semi, 5th in final)Austria
Juror A:
(13th in semi, 9th in final)Azerbaijan
Juror E:
(13th in semi, 2nd in final)Bulgaria
Juror A:
(11th in semi, 7th in final)Juror C:
(12th in semi, 7th in final)Juror D:
(13th in semi, 8th in final)Juror E:
(13th in semi, 10th in final)Cyprus
Juror E:
(13th in semi, 10th in final), (12th in semi, 7th in final)Estonia
Juror C:
(11th in semi, 9th in final)France
Juror B:
(1st in semi, 23rd in final) (15th in semi, 1st in final) (14th in semi, 7th in final), (12th in semi, 4th in final)Germany
Juror A:
(11th in semi, 8th in final)Juror E:
(13th in semi, 6th in final)Greece
Juror C:
(13th in semi, 3rd in final)Ireland
Juror D:
(11th in semi, 4th in final)Juror E:
(15th in semi, 8th in final)Israel
Juror D:
(14th in semi, 7th in final)As a national jury, Israel also ranked Azerbaijan 14/15 in the semi final, but 9/25 in the grand final.
Italy
Juror A:
(13th in semi, 6th in final)Juror B:
(12th in semi, 7th in final)Juror E:
(13th in semi, 5th in final)Malta
Juror A:
(13th in semi, 10th in final)Juror B:
(3rd in semi, 23rd in final)Juror C:
(15th in semi, 2nd in final), (14th in semi, 5th in final), (11th in semi, 10th in final)Juror D
(12th in semi, 8th in final)Moldova
Juror B:
(2nd in semi, 22nd in final), (13th in semi, 10th in final)Juror E:
(2nd in semi, 16th in final), (12th in semi, 7th in final)As a national jury, Moldova also ranked San Marino 2/16 in the semi final, but 13/25 in the grand final
Netherlands
Juror B:
(11th in semi, 6th in final)North Macedonia
Juror B:
(15th in semi, 6th in final)Juror C:
(15th in semi, 8th in final)Juror D:
(12th in semi, 6th in final)Poland
Juror A:
(2nd in semi, 24th in final), (14th in semi, 4th in final), (13th in semi, 2nd in final)Juror B:
(11th in semi, 7th in final)Juror E:
(13th in semi, 2nd in final), (11th in semi, 10th in final)As a national jury, Poland also ranked Greece 1/16 in the semi final, but 15/26 in the grand final.
They also ranked Portugal 10/16 in the semi final, but 3/26 in the grand final.
Romania
Juror A:
(2nd in semi, 21st in final), (13th in semi, 8th in final)Juror D:
(14th in semi, 9th in final)Russia
Juror C:
(11th in semi, 8th in final)Juror D:
(12th in semi, 5th in final)San Marino
Juror C:
(15th in semi, 6th in final), (12th in semi, 9th in final)Juror D:
(16th in semi, 10th in final), (14th in semi, 8th in final)Juror E:
(2nd in semi, 24th in final)Serbia
Juror A:
(12th in semi, 9th in final)Slovenia
Juror C:
(13th in semi, 8th in final)Sweden
Juror D:
(11th in semi, 10th in final)Ukraine
Juror A:
(11th in semi, 9th in final)Juror D:
(13th in semi, 9th in final)Juror E:
(14th in semi, 8th in final), (12th in semi, 10th in final)OVERALL, I believe there is some sort of big bloc between Bulgaria, Greece, Moldova, Poland, Portugal and San Marino. One (or all) of these countries had an influence in the jury votes of the other(s).
In my opinion there is also some evidence that Azerbaijan has influenced the jury votes of Israel and Russia for the grand final. They also may have done something with Malta's votes in the semi only.
Lastly, I believe there is some evidence that the individual jury members of certain countries have colluded with each other to develop a more similar national ranking (or perhaps they just all think the same way...). The most glaring examples that spring to mind are Belgium, Bulgaria, Georgia (semi), Israel, Italy, and North Macedonia.
Zeus
Well-known member
- Joined
- March 16, 2020
- Posts
- 1,592
Look at the results from these juries from Malta.
There is a clear pattern. Rank the favorites low in the semi, so that your country has a bigger chance to qualify for the final. And than in the final, oops, they suddenly do like and rate all these entries.
There is a clear pattern. Rank the favorites low in the semi, so that your country has a bigger chance to qualify for the final. And than in the final, oops, they suddenly do like and rate all these entries.
The Italian jury has been weird the last couple of years - balking a rival for victory and giving 12 points to a random country. In 2019, they balk Netherlands (12th), Switzerland (17th) and Russia (third last) and gave their 12 to Denmark. This year, they totally hammer Switzerland, putting it SECOND LAST in their rankings and gave their 12 to Lithuania
As they say in Italian... Cosa succede con quello? (What's up with that?)
As they say in Italian... Cosa succede con quello? (What's up with that?)
crashworld
Veteran
- Joined
- May 12, 2018
- Posts
- 3,918
I would like to point out that, sometimes that why there is a change in the ranking could be that the jury's favourites got eliminated in the Semi-Final, so they can only rank those that are in the Final. So there is a possibility that an entry is ranked low in the semi final but then got pushed up in the grand final because the other semi final qualifiers and the auto-qualifiers may not be to the jury's taste.
midnightsun
Veteran
The biggest problem imo is that some juries stick to the official criterias how to vote and some don’t.
For example, one
jury member explained the 5 (or so) criteria and how he looked at each song from each angle and put his personal taste aside and thought about which songs we need in Eurovision to be progressive etc.I‘m sure some other jury members from other countries just voted their personal taste or were just clueless and voted for whatever was popular in the odds or were even forced to vote for a song / suppressed to not vote for a certain country.
As long as some countries take voting seriously and some others don‘t it will never be a fair result.