Block voting - It's getting worse

[FallenAngelII]

Either way, it's clear the juries are also failing to vote on the song...and giving points to their neighbours as they always used to do in the past.

IMO the juries should consist of fans of the Eurovision who care about the best songs and performances doing well...not "professionals" who only care about high fiving their neighbours and marking down the competition.

I find it hard to believe that we can put cultural differences aside when judging the songs and performances, yet so called professionals cannot.

You do realize that looking at the past couple of years' jury votes, the juries have done a pretty fine job of lessening the effect of block and diaspora voting, right?

Also, I'd rather rely on professional juries than fans who would've elevated Norway and Sweden to the very top of the scoreboard this year in a heartbeat. Norway.

Ebity #12341 on why the West is worse than the East when it comes to block voting:
Portugal's score in the 1st semi-final:
1 point: Greece
2 points: Georgia
4 points: Albania, Switzerland
8 points: Spain

 

[AngryAnt]

San Marino voting for Italy would be like allowing Birmingham to vote for the UK

You could say that it would be like Scotland voting for England, but being honest, Scotland would more than likely rip its voting sheet up and just eat a mars bar infront of the camera instead of giving 12 to England .

--
I do think it was pretty bad last night, highlighted not just by the east but also the west. Scandinavian countries were just as bad as the rest. Something seriously needs to be done about it (weather it be one vote per house or something more extreme).
Feels like we've gone back a few years because of the voting patterns after last night .

Also, the UK was going to give Ireland 12 no matter. Not due to being neighbours but due to Jedward becoming famous via a UK television show.
I'd like to know when the last time the UK and Ireland actually swapped 12 with each other, because i don't recall it being anytime recently (if it was, i'm wrong *slaps wrist*).

 

[Isabella]

scandinavian block is much worse than ex-yu block. check out the history of voting for both of these blocks and u'll see.
to me, this sound like "they are all the same, but scandinavians are still better cause *insert some reason other than real numbers*". prejustices and stereotypes.
btw, last year we gave 12 pts to turkey and this year 12 went to slovenia (ok, also ex-yu but that wasn't the "obvious" choice + that was the first 12 for slovenia since we entered esc as 2 countries)

xyeah

I'm still very happy about our votes I read something how Dino said B&H got only 7 points from Croatia, beacuse of our jury. It could be that our jury didn't give him points :idea: Also, I'm very sad to read some insulting comments from B&H. Now neighbours hate us (except Slovenia), because we didn't give them highest points I expected some gratitude for giving them 7 points :?

 

[Samb]

Scotland would more than likely rip its voting sheet up and just eat a mars bar infront of the camera instead of giving 12 to England

Thanks for your tasteless generalisation of Scottish people.

 

[Vranjanka]

sometimes you just can't avoid block voting. In Serbia, we gave 12 pts to B&H because Dino is quite famous and popular here too. Also, if we sing in our language, our neighbours can understand it and can relate to it more than a song from a different country.

 

[QwaarJet]

Thanks for your tasteless generalisation of Scottish people.

He is completely right though (except for the Mars bar). Maybe not for you personally, but I seriously doubt a Scottish scoresheet would have UK in anything but the low points section unless UK was represented by Wales or N. Ireland that year. It is an interesting debate because it may become reality in a few years.

Also, people keep going on about who is worse in the bloc voting, but everyone was bad this year. Something needs to be done before the whole thing becomes a farce.

 

[Sean]

San Marino is an autonomous country. Birmingham is a city in England.

Not his point. San Marino is likely to share a very common interest in music with Italy, and so they are more likely to give them high marks in Eurovision. Likewise, Birmingham and the UK's music industry are pretty much the same, so if Birmingham was an independent participating nation it would be incredibly likely that Birmingham and the UK would 12 swap.

There's a reasonable explanation for the bloc voting. Thankfully it's not as pronounced anymore and doesn't affect the high results much. Why can't people accept some countries have different borders but similar music?

Ebity #12341 on why the West is worse than the East when it comes to block voting:
Portugal's score in the 1st semi-final:
1 point: Greece
2 points: Georgia
4 points: Albania, Switzerland
8 points: Spain

You clearly didn't even listen to the Portuguese entry this year. It's in Portuguese, which is more likely to appeal to Spaniards than English (I Suppose, correct me if I'm wrong) and the backing music to it is very Hispanic in its culture. 8 points isn't surprising at all.

 

[Earthland]

It's not just voting for your neighbors. It's voting for somebody because of a variety of pointless reasons: for example, I think Italy and Austria ended up that far only because they were gone for so long and some countries wanted to "encourage" them....

 

[Rose]

sometimes you just can't avoid block voting. In Serbia, we gave 12 pts to B&H because Dino is quite famous and popular here too. Also, if we sing in our language, our neighbours can understand it and can relate to it more than a song from a different country.

^This. Former Yugoslavic music is all similar, the people know what they like, and music that is familar to them will always be preferred over more 'foreign' music. I really don't think it's political 'neighbour' voting at all when it comes to Former Yugo. Dino Merlin is one of the most popular musicians in that region, people are obviously going to vote for him over Amuray from France for example, because they know him, like him, his music. It's a cultural thing more than anything else.

The audience was terrible, really rude and HIGHLY hypocritical. btw - B&H / Macedonia aren't neighbors . . .

That said, this competition needs to change somehow because most of the songs that qualified for the final were a joke. Moldova over Cyprus is just one example. The competition is all mainstream english pop now, but thats for a different topic. I think that a great, cultural song like Cyprus' was robbed because there is an element of political voting and those countries that don't have a lot of friends always miss out even when they have some amazing songs (: I also agree with the previous post - political voting is there, but it's not the only reason people vote the way they do, for sure Italy only finished 2nd because of that reason of 'encouragement"

 

[DerMarcelos7]

Germany gave 12 points because many loved the song, not because of neighbour

by the way, the most dont know, the german, austrian and the swiss tv is connected together, Kabel 1, Pro7, RTL, Sat 1 are all connected to austria and switzerland too. We had some weeks ago Deutschland sucht den Superstar (American idol) and we had people from switzerland and austria in the show, and the show was shown in switzerland and austria too, so both countries ae knowing lena perfectly and there are for sure more fans than from other countries, the fact that many will call for germany is sure of them, the same back, the singer of austria we had on tv and we did know her long time before esc and she got many fans here in germany, thats not neighbour help or whatever, thats the fan connection because of the tv conenction which here is, same with Uk and Ireland, X Factor was in both countries, so UK did know Jedward and got 12 points. I dont know how it is in Portugal and Spain. But its not "neighbour help". Just the fan base is bigger because of tv connection. And the tv connection has nothing to do with ESC or whatever.

 

[DerMarcelos7]

http://www.bild.de/unterhaltung/mus...reich-abstimmungsverhalten-17912082.bild.html

Beispiel Georgien: Litauen gibt 10 Punkte – und bekommt 12 Punkte aus Georgien zurück. An die Ukraine verteilt Georgien 10 Punkte – und sackt 12 Punkte ein. Eine Hand wäscht die andere ...

Bosnien-Herzegowina schenkt Slowenien 12 Punkte, kriegt im Gegenzug 12 Punkte zurück. Moldawien gibt Rumänien die 12 und bekommt die volle Punktzahl zurück.

 

[Joyride]

But its not "neighbour help". Just the fan base is bigger ...

Yeah, but that's the same with other countries!

Bosnia, Serbia, Croatia and so on even were one country once! I absolutely don't see anything wrong with them giving the points to each other.

I'm sure, if Germany was divided into two countries (which it was, once) and one country sends out a singer singing in German, the other one would vote for him also.

Yet there is a difference in voting for a neighbour country, like Scandinavian countries or Ireland/UK, Germany/Austria or voting for sperated countries which used to be one country.

 

[seb89]

But there is something wrong if you always send your highest points to your neighbours. Belgium did it only once and it's considered as 'block voting'. Romania-Moldavia, Greece Cyprus,... always always give eachtother maximum points. You can say the have the same culture, same for us, we have the same culture as the Netherlands & France. Yes, this year we gave high points, because it was a good song. If it was our neighbour and we would do bloc voting/neighbour voting, we would give them each year high points. I admit that the Netherlands & Belgium gave each other points in the semifinal, but we never ever give them the maximum points! Giving points to your neighbours is nothing wrong, I consider it normal, because culture goes beyond borders, but every year the highest points?? Come on!

And another "fact" saying West-Europe will always give points to their neighbours, well if I look at my country votes, French votes, Dutch vote, we do give points to the "other side", while some countries, no matter if the song is so good, will never ever give votes to eachother, because of political issues: Macedonia-Greece, Azerbaijan-Armenia, Turkey-Armenia,....

 

[deese]

^ Turkey often gives votes to Armenia

 

[Rusch]

I think in the final, the block voting isn't that much of a problem. The only thing that worries me, is what would happen, if all counties of one block reach the same semi. We might end up with 8 balkan countries as qualifieres. When this happens, there will be hughe uproar.

 

[chipzz]

I totally agree ! It's getting even worse! It's like these aren't a real juries , it's like they they are just a people who have more rights!

 

[seb89]

^ Turkey often gives votes to Armenia

Sorry for that ! Bad example!

 

[FallenAngelII]

Not his point. San Marino is likely to share a very common interest in music with Italy, and so they are more likely to give them high marks in Eurovision. Likewise, Birmingham and the UK's music industry are pretty much the same, so if Birmingham was an independent participating nation it would be incredibly likely that Birmingham and the UK would 12 swap.

Except the Nordic Mafia shares neither a common music industry or even, really, common tastes. Very few Nordic artists are actually well-known across the Nordic. Yet the Nordic countries (almost) always swap 8-12 pointers.

Also, if you look at the "Inför Eurovision Song Contest" panel, the panel (almost) always rates the other Nordic countries in the Top 5. (Almost) always. (Sweden, of course, it as almost aways #1).

You clearly didn't even listen to the Portuguese entry this year. It's in Portuguese, which is more likely to appeal to Spaniards than English (I Suppose, correct me if I'm wrong) and the backing music to it is very Hispanic in its culture.

I speak Spanish (semi-fluently). I didn't understand a word they sang because:
* Portuguese and Spanish aren't that similar in many respects. They share a common origin but Spanish people and Portuguese people can't share in meaningful conversations with each other unless they're both speakinng the same language.
* The artists couldn't sing well and mostly just yelled at the top of their lungs, so even if I spoke the languge, it would've been hard for me to understand what they were singing about because I couldn't actually tell what the flying fig they were "singing").
* It's a (probable) joke entry about the Carnation Revolution (or whatever it was called) that occurred in Portuggal a good 50 or so years ago. By the flying fig would the Spanish like it enough to give it 8 points?! Also, 8 points implies it got either the people's 12 (probable) or at least some jury points to help it along.

8 points isn't surprising at all.

Yes... yes it is.

Here's an excerpt of the lyrics in Portuguese:
"Por vezes dás contigo desanimado
Por vezes dás contigo a desconfiar
Por vezes dás contigo sobressaltado
Por vezes dás contigo a desesperar"

Spanish translation (not 100% guaranteeed to be accurate):
"A veces le dan desalentados
A veces se te dé la desconfianza
A veces darle un nuevo comienzo
A veces te dé a la desesperación"

That's a whole lot of difference besides a few common-ish word-stems. And the grammar is quite different.

I think in the final, the block voting isn't that much of a problem. The only thing that worries me, is what would happen, if all counties of one block reach the same semi. We might end up with 8 balkan countries as qualifieres. When this happens, there will be hughe uproar.

Except that's impossible due to the pot-system.

 

[Rose]

Macedonia-Greece

Macedonia has given plenty of points to Greece, they never give to us . . . this year we gave them 3.

 

[seb89]

Here's an excerpt of the lyrics in Portuguese:
"Por vezes dás contigo desanimado
Por vezes dás contigo a desconfiar
Por vezes dás contigo sobressaltado
Por vezes dás contigo a desesperar"

Spanish translation (not 100% guaranteeed to be accurate):
"A veces le dan desalentados
A veces se te dé la desconfianza
A veces darle un nuevo comienzo
A veces te dé a la desesperación"

That's a whole lot of difference besides a few common-ish word-stems. And the grammar is quite different.

You like to emphasize thing, you shouldn't forget this one .