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How many countries will join?

Loindici

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Let's predict how many countries will join 2023 edition since some broadcasters got some drama with EBU and Ukraine won the contest.
 

A-lister

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Was that the case though? As far as I can remember the broadcaster gave really hard and heavy politic rules towards her and she felt under pressure.


She competed by the same rules as everyone else, she signed a contract that she broke. Period.

Then she used the aftermath to get political and run pro-russian and anti-Ukrianian propaganda as if her whining wasn't enough. Enough with victimizing her, she never was a victim. She's just a person who thinks that breaking contracts is honorable and that all should bow down to her and then going all drama like a big child when not getting her way. It's clear that she just used Vidbir as self promotion and as a tool in the russian propaganda machinery with no actual intention or interest in taking part in Eurovision.

She was practically a no one but acted like she was the biggest star in the country with just one semi hit prior to taking part in Vidbir.
 

A-lister

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Kazakhstan:cry::cry::cry::cry:

I know right, EBU's bias continues. Not shocking as EBU clearly don't want them in but one could hope there was a window of opportunity now that three countries are out and with only one Eastern Slavic and one Turkic country left, one could think that EBU could see the cultural void and push for more diversity, but we already know that true European diversity isn't the goal of Eurovision any longer :/

I think :kz: and :xk: should have already been invited some years ago.
 

Brandt

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She competed by the same rules as everyone else, she signed a contract that she broke. Period.

Then she used the aftermath to get political and run pro-russian and anti-Ukrianian propaganda as if her whining wasn't enough. Enough with victimizing her, she never was a victim. She's just a person who thinks that breaking contracts is honorable and that all should bow down to her and then going all drama like a big child when not getting her way. It's clear that she just used Vidbir as self promotion and as a tool in the russian propaganda machinery with no actual intention or interest in taking part in Eurovision.

She was practically a no one but acted like she was the biggest star in the country with just one semi hit prior to taking part in Vidbir.
There are two sides of a coin. I am not entirely buying what she says but after what happened in the national final, I would not be too surprised if the Ukrainian broadcaster was just being a rapacious dictator on her.

 

Rocket man

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I hope eventually Kosovo can join the contest. It must be because of political reasons that they are unable to enter Eurovision.

Kazakhstan, I wouldn't be against them competing, I just don't understand how Kazakhstan are out, but Australia is in.

37 countries are a decent number, considering the global economic problems that everyone is facing.
 

A-lister

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There are two sides of a coin. I am not entirely buying what she says but after what happened in the national final, I would not be too surprised if the Ukrainian broadcaster was just being a rapacious dictator on her.


There is something called a contract, the rules were known to all the participants prior, it wasn't made up afterwards by the Ukrainian broadcaster, Maruv just used the moment for self promotion and propaganda.

I don't feel sorry for her a single bit and nor would many ESC fans if they weren't so in love with the entry that they can't objectively judge the situation. I for one also liked the song, but am I going to defend someone like that? Nope. At least with Alina Pash, she didn't trash the broadcaster and her country, she did try to trick the rules however (which led to her disqualification) but she did acknowledge them at least (albeit cheating lol).

Anyways, we're both getting off-topic here lol
 

A-lister

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Kazakhstan, I wouldn't be against them competing, I just don't understand how Kazakhstan are out, but Australia is in.
There is obviously no logical reasons for this, as Australia is on the other side of the continent, but it fits EBU's push to "westernize" and "anglify" the contest... I said it before and say it again, probability of USA and Canada being brought into the contest, eventhough they obviously shouldn't, is higher than Kazakhstan being allowed in (even if the former is partly in continental Europe).
 

FilipFromSweden

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2019 - Ukraine withdrew (Maruv´s ego)
If you're gonna do her dirty like that, add that Freedom Jazz and Kazka also said no
 

FilipFromSweden

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There is something called a contract, the rules were known to all the participants prior, it wasn't made up afterwards by the Ukrainian broadcaster, Maruv just used the moment for self promotion and propaganda.
Rules of Vidbir =/= equate to the contract a winner has to sign. How do you know the top 3 who all pulled out knew of the crazy contract before? It was undemocratic as hell, limiting her in who she could talk to and potentially forcing her to perform without having a say
 

Mainshow

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That would be horrible - to see Canada or the US join the contest instead of letting a European country participate (Kazakhstan is as European as Turkey [geographically speaking]).

Honestly, I can totally understand that there are criteria why Kazakhstan could be neglected from participating/debuting but strangely, they broke all the rules for other countries and make excepetions for them and thus, not letting Kazakhstan debut just comes across as utterly discriminating and arbitrary.

BUT, I also have to agree with @Rocket man ... 37 is a great number whilst there is a genocide happening on the continent + an energy crisis/recession.

Hoewever, if the EBU had been less stubborn/narrow-minded, it could have been 38 minimum....
 

Mainshow

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If you're gonna do her dirty like that, add that Freedom Jazz and Kazka also said no
Freedom Jazz and Kazka said "no" because they didn´t want to compete as a runner-up or 3rd-placer and they showed some solidarity and thought that Maruv should be representing Ukraine.

Apart from the lack of financial support (which is an issue for other countries as well), Maruv has releaved 4 parts of the contracts she refused to sign:

  1. I am forbidden to make any improvisation on the stage without the approval of the NTU. (Unagreed gymnastic splits, for example, will result in a fine of 2 million hryvnia)
  2. Immediate transfer of the copyright to the song belonging to the international label Warner Music (it was known about these rights before the start of the contest)
  3. Fully comply with any requirements and instructions of the NTU. (Theoretically, they can force me to dance at a birthday party with some deputy Prime Minister, and in case of refusal, they will disqualify me and oblige me again to pay a fine of 2 million hryvnia. Plus, to compensate the NTU for the alleged losses!)
  4. The ban on communication with journalists without the consent of the NTU. (Which completely violates freedom of speech and human rights)
source: https://eurovoix.com/2019/02/25/ukraine-maruv-reveals-details-of-uapbc-eurovision-contract/#:~:text=MARUV revealed on Facebook her experience since being,be allowed to represent Ukraine in Tel Aviv.

First, it´s her wording - not the original phrasese used in the contract and thus, we don´t know for sure that it was really meant that way (or not).

You know yourself that taking part in Eurovision is a huge thing: Countries and broadcasters hire stage directors, choreographers, designers and more people to create something on stage.
Rule #1 simply says that Maruv is not allowed to make any improvisation during the performance. Let´s just assume that Ukraine didn´t go full dictatorship and would have let Maruv alter her own performance if stage directors/choreographers agree on it.
Rule #2 - she knew about this beforehand and it´s a common thing - there has to be some agreements so that all songs get released (as well as on the same compilation under a single record label)
Rule #3 - This is far-fetched, imo. Personally (and hopefully), I think that this part should make sure that Maruv shows up for rehearsals, press conferences, the red carpet event and more (not cancelling flights, rides, showing up in general) and some events before Eurovision (Preview parties, interviews?)
Rule #4 - Again, Eurovision = representing your country and there´s huge schedule - each delegation has a head of press and they filter questions or come up with meetings/they schedule certain interviews/organise them. - It´s quite likely that the Ukrainian broadcaster didn´t want Maruv to ditch important bloggers/press or choose questionable reporters who would be twisting their words - Again, there are professional people for arranging interviews, etc (head of press).

All in all, they a few phrases can be seen as fishy or shabby (the way Maruv herself presented them) but in general, this contract is not that far away from any other professional contract in the music industry.

The Ukrainian broadcaster could have been more supportive (especially financially) but in the end, it was Maruv´s decision to not do Eurovision and hence, Ukraine withdrew.
 

A-lister

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Rules of Vidbir =/= equate to the contract a winner has to sign. How do you know the top 3 who all pulled out knew of the crazy contract before? It was undemocratic as hell, limiting her in who she could talk to and potentially forcing her to perform without having a say

@Mainshow pretty much answered to all, but there is nothing "undemocratic" in a contract. If you think that MF winners don't have them then you're mistaken. Obviously broadcasters and investors won't allow acts to go "rogue" all out of sudden.

Anyways, not sure how this thread ended up about a tired old subject :lol:
 

FilipFromSweden

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@Mainshow pretty much answered to all, but there is nothing "undemocratic" in a contract. If you think that MF winners don't have them then you're mistaken. Obviously broadcasters and investors won't allow acts to go "rogue" all out of sudden.

Anyways, not sure how this thread ended up about a tired old subject :lol:
I know for sure SVT wouldn't sue or fine a contestant for improvising on stage or agreeing to talk to journalists without asking for permission. Sounds very North Korea to me and I find it crazy anybody thinks such a simple thing as being punished for improvisation in a creative contest is ok in any way. If you're curious as to how this subject came about, it was Mainshow who was bored and wanted to trash Maruv out of nowhere
 

Mainshow

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I know for sure SVT wouldn't sue or fine a contestant for improvising on stage or agreeing to talk to journalists without asking for permission. Sounds very North Korea to me and I find it crazy anybody thinks such a simple thing as being punished for improvisation in a creative contest is ok in any way. If you're curious as to how this subject came about, it was Mainshow who was bored and wanted to trash Maruv out of nowhere

Let´s imagine a contestant goes fully artsy-fartsy in the dress rehearsal and wants to comes up with changes in the choreography. Suddenly, the singer makes different moves and is on different spots on the stage and all meticulously chosen camera angles are in vain. Maruv´s contract (even the way she phrased that point) states that she is not allowed to change anything without the consent of the delegation/broadcaster/people in charge.
If you want to improvise during a live performance, Eurovision is clearly not the right thing for you.

You clearly don´t want to read the contract I had to sign when I was part of the "Eurojury" in our preselection...
 

AlekS

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limiting her in who she could talk to and potentially forcing her to perform without having a say
Don't the EBU rules limit what performers can do even behind the stage? Armenia was fined for Iveta waving Karabakh flag. Israel getting touchy with the hosts? Hatari waving Palestinian flag?
If performing at ESC promo parties is equal to performing in front of sugar daddies...

Ps. As for contract. Melovin had no such things in his contract, as well as Go_A (Kate said that on Insta live).

I'm close to both sides. The official reason is that after 5 hours of negotiations her label refused to give copyright. Even though she begged them and she didn't mind to cancel her concerts in Russia (according to her own words) clashing with Amsterdam party.
 
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AlekS

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Kazka has said that they will compete next year btw.
2 months after that Maruv was recording at Jamala's studio. So leave that bs for Twitter trolls.

TuLNUBO.jpg
 

AlekS

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Now back on topic :cool:

I'm sad that :bg: Bulgaria is not in, but knowing all the bitching between BNT and people in charge of Eurovision on BNT last year, it was predictable.

Having :kz: Kazakhstan on JESC but not on Eurovision still makes no sense to me.
 
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