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San Remo Poll

Should San Remo songs be considered ineligible from now on?

  • Yes, with the exception of the years Italy didn't take part in Eurovision.

    32 59.3%
  • No, Keep it as it is

    22 40.7%

  • Total voters
    54
  • Poll closed .
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WorldVision

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WV COMMUNITY POLL

Dear WV community,

In recent months, the question regarding the eligibility of San Remo songs has been discussed quite a few times. Your posts showed us there were different opinions going on, hence it's time you're given a space to share them.

As you know, San Remo songs have initially been considred eligible. The argument put forward was that this festival isn't an ESC Nation Final by definition, contrary to Melodifestivalen or Eesti Laul for example. However, we didn't miss the objections you expressed concerning this point of the rule and understand that the community wish to bring change. We want this contest to be as fair as possible for everyone, hence we consider the suggestions the community express.



With that goal in mind, we opened this thread to :
  1. Discuss the current rule about the eligibility of the San Remo songs, with due respect to all members and their opinions.
  2. Vote in the poll that will decide whether San Remo songs will still be accepted in the future.
**Note that any rule change over San Remo would only apply to the years in which Italy used it to select its Eurovision entry.​
VOTING DDL: April 16, 2021 at 23:01CET
 

CypriotGirl

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I would support any decision, because both make sense IMO. I don't follow San Remo or any ESC NF in the past years, so it doesn't make any difference to me. But, most people who take part in WV do, and I can see why they might have an advantage against other entries. My question is: does the winner of San Remo become automatically the ESC entry of Italy? Is it 100% sure that Italy won't send a song that is not related to San Remo? These things aren't clear to me, if someone could clarify them would be highly appreciated. Right now I'm leaning towards allowing them, because the songs aren't made with ESC in mind, but to take part in another contest.
 

theditz83

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I would support any decision, because both make sense IMO. I don't follow San Remo or any ESC NF in the past years, so it doesn't make any difference to me. But, most people who take part in WV do, and I can see why they might have an advantage against other entries. My question is: does the winner of San Remo become automatically the ESC entry of Italy? Is it 100% sure that Italy won't send a song that is not related to San Remo? These things aren't clear to me, if someone could clarify them would be highly appreciated. Right now I'm leaning towards allowing them, because the songs aren't made with ESC in mind, but to take part in another contest.
To answer your question, the winner of San Remo is invited to be the Italian representative for Eurovision but it is not essential that they agree to this if they don't want to. I'm assuming if they decline however that the runner up in San Remo would perhaps be asked however? It's not clear what the back-up plan from Rai would be in this case xshrug

I don't feel particularly strongly either way, but it's probably clear that the San Remo Festival, while not an official ESC NF as such, is regarded in the Eurovision fan community in the same breath as many other NFs so it makes sense for them not be allowed in future...
 

cegs5

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To answer your question, the winner of San Remo is invited to be the Italian representative for Eurovision but it is not essential that they agree to this if they don't want to. I'm assuming if they decline however that the runner up in San Remo would perhaps be asked however? It's not clear what the back-up plan from Rai would be in this case xshrug

I don't feel particularly strongly either way, but it's probably clear that the San Remo Festival, while not an official ESC NF as such, is regarded in the Eurovision fan community in the same breath as many other NFs so it makes sense for them not be allowed in future...
I would support any decision, because both make sense IMO. I don't follow San Remo or any ESC NF in the past years, so it doesn't make any difference to me. But, most people who take part in WV do, and I can see why they might have an advantage against other entries. My question is: does the winner of San Remo become automatically the ESC entry of Italy? Is it 100% sure that Italy won't send a song that is not related to San Remo? These things aren't clear to me, if someone could clarify them would be highly appreciated. Right now I'm leaning towards allowing them, because the songs aren't made with ESC in mind, but to take part in another contest.

As far as I know, RAI has chosen their representative even before knowing the winner of Sanremo. So no, it’s not that they will automatically invite the winner for ESC. Sanremo is used as an opportunity to negociate with artists and record labels. There were also occasions when they chose a Sanremo artist who did not perform in Eurovision the same song they did in Sanremo (i.e. 2012)
But I don’t follow Sanremo or NFs as much as some guys here, so if I’m wromg please correct me.
 

Amir

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If NF songs are banned in WV simply because of their direct connection to the ESC, then I guess San Remo songs should be allowed (though it’s really borderline imo). But then the same rule should apply for any other similar events (I’m not following any selection methods so I don’t know if there are any comparable festivals anyway)

If NF songs are banned in WV because of their popularity among the forum members, then San Remo songs should be banned as well. xshrug
 

cegs5

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BTW To me it will make much more sense if we set limits on the years for all NFs entries that are not allowed, let’s say the last 15 years?
The reason behind the ban is not giving advantage to well-known and supported NF entries in the forum which is understandable and makes a difference for those who follow NFs... but honestly how many of us know the runner-up or 5th place in Yugoslavia NF 1985 (if any) or last place Sanremo 1992? ... you know what I mean... We might be missing really nice hidden pearls and discoveries there.

I have even sent a Sanremo song for Mexico in the past, and I didn’t know that! I only knew after reading about it some time after that WV.
 

EurovisionSmile

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Voted.:) I think it's just fine as it is. In my opinion, the current rule is fine, San Remo isn't a National Final meant to choose a song for ESC. It's as simple as that to me. :)
 

Ana Raquel

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I don't vote for NF songs because there is an inevitable bias for them (they are allowed in some contests I take part at). Unless it's a case of the country not taking part in ESC (eg. Hungary 2020-2021) or Turkvision (who is still seen as a joke by many ESC fans), I'll keep not voting for them if they are allowed.
 

RainyWoods

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I think they're fine. You can argue they have an advantage but then so do the popular returning artists with previously great results, well liked Eurovision artists, huge hits by big singers that are already known and loved etc. At the same time though it can all backfire. By sending such songs you take the risk of a spectacular flop if people are not impressed by what they consider predictable entries. I honestly think Italy would have done better with their song this edition had it not been a Sanremo entry that was the fan favourite. It's not like Kris spams these songs every month. Like what, once a year he might share with us a song from Sanremo? I admit that it's perhaps unusual how they are allowed but we've grown accustomed to them by now. In the past few years Loredana Berte won with a Sanremo song (still one of my all time fave WV moments) and that was about it I believe, unless I'm forgetting something? There is an advantage but it's slight and I think countered by other types of entries with even bigger advantages.
 

ferret

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The only thing I would change in this contest is the ban on using songs released earlier than 2000, as well as to restrict the participation of the same artist earlier than 10 editions. But I'm the only one here with these ideas, so I'm no longer trying to apply for a moderator position, you can sigh. :lol::lol:
As for Sanremo... Once upon a time, Nina Zilli stole my first Australian win with Jarryd James. Of course, I got my way later, but I remember the story. Now that the wins in this competition are so devalued for me, it absolutely doesn't matter. But you need to change something to keep moving. I voted. ;)
 

Gabor77

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Are other Sanremo songs of the same year allowed to take part in WV, if Italy sends the winner of it? Or only if they decide to go with another song (apart from Sanremo)?
 

Lupus

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Honestly don't see the issue. If anything, I would be happy to see other songs that don't go to ESC being eligible for WV too - it's not as if any NF song is a WV winner! Moreover, as a few people have highlighted, not everyone follows the NFs so it's hardly as if the songs are widely popular in the way that a large of number of WV-eligible entries are! Let's keep the freedom and flexibility xup
 

JamieBrown

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I would be happy to see other songs that don't go to ESC being eligible for WV too - it's not as if any NF song is a WV winner

This was actually my idea when I asked for the reason of Sanremo eligibility once xup
I wonder if fanfavourites like 'Cicciolina' would do well in WV (I hope not^^)
 

Krishoes

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I'm fine with any result, but in fact, maybe if I can no longer have the opportunity to enter Sanremo songs (from the years directly linked to Eurovision) I will have one less "worry" because I have often wondered whether or not to select songs from the festival.

However after this survey - I feel quite uncomfortable in this situation being the judge of the nation - I don't think I will enter songs from the editions of the Festival from 2011 onwards in the future, considering it's an issue for some other WV players.
 

Krishoes

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After the message I left yesterday I feel the need to clarify a few things because there were probably some misunderstandings. Unfortunately, sometimes it is not easy to express yourself in a language other than your own and even the lack of tone of voice and use of emojis can change the intention of some statements.

I start by saying that I am not "upset" about the fact that the eligibility of Sanremo entries in the game is being questioned, I used the word "uncomfortable" because of course being the poll directed towards the choices of one nation, I feel I am the center of attention, but it is not something that causes me displeasure, I want to emphasize that. It's just a game, after all!

Since I entered the game, I too have wondered why Sanremo songs were choosable while those of other selections were not. However, since it was part of the rules, I agreed to share them knowing that I wasn't going against the rules of the game. And I knew that some players would have liked to see some of those songs in the game.

There are so many good Sanremo songs every year, in fact apart from one time (with Loredana Bertè) the other times I have always organized a selection to be helped by other players to choose what to play because it was too hard for me to choose just one song. I've been a big fan of the Italian festival for more than twenty years and I've been following it religiously since 1999, so much so that I've called it the "holy week", that's why it's an honor for me to enter Sanremo songs into this competition and I never thought of playing them to have an advantage for the victory, I never considered this aspect.

However, Worldvision is a game in constant evolution, many players remain, but we also have new ones. In life we grow and change our minds, and things around us change as well.

Yes, I even won once with a song that participated in Sanremo, a sign that for many players, at that time, it was not a problem that the song was sung there. But I understand very well then that, after a couple of years, considering how the "relationship" between Sanremo and Eurovision is changing, and the attention and enthusiasm towards the festival of my nation from eurofans, there is now a thin line between the festival and a Eurovision selection, and it's okay that things are questioned even after years.

In the last selection I held, I received some votes from ana (whom I invited to vote after voting in her selection) and I was honestly told that I could also not accept them because, for her respectable choice, she would not have voted any of the songs once the edition started. As she stated above she does not vote for songs that are presented in Eurovision selections. I realize other players may share the same respectable opinion. I understood very well the motivation and I accepted the votes anyway, considering that they are the expression of a taste present in the game.

So I asked myself if it was the case to enter Sanremo songs from now on well before the poll and the question was opened. When I write that in the future I will prefer not to enter Sanremo songs from 2011 onwards, I don't say it with any displeasure or offense. In the end, out of the dozen songs that I play every year, only one usually comes from the Sanremo edition that just ended, but in the Italian music scene there are so many songs to play (and also entries presented at Sanremo when Italy was not at Eurovision such as Sentimento by Avion Travel, Il passo silenzioso della neve, or the songs I played ages ago for Puglia, which of course I will still consider). So despite my love for the kermesse, I have so many other options to consider, whatever the outcome of the poll.
 

Uto

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I voted ban because while a statutory difference with other NFs can't be denied, the practical role is the same. As such, we should treat them the same. It is morally just.
 

hijirio

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I definitely agree with Uto, he summed up my point very briefly.
Whether it serves an advantage or disadvantage to send an NF song, this is not the topic of discussion. Beyond that this is a matter of giving the same equal treatment to all NF's.
Exempting Italy from the NF ban is very forced to me. As we are in a game, we should take into account the practical reasoning behind the rule, rather than sticking to the dictionary definition of what is a national final and what isn't.
If Italy chose their ESC entry 6 of the past 7 years with this selection, yes it is an NF in practice, and denying this is turning a blind eye to the elephant in the room.
Whatever the point is for banning other NF entries, San Remo should be subject to same treatment for the same reason.
Or all NF entries should be made eligible for the sake of equality.
 

JamieBrown

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So I asked myself if it was the case to enter Sanremo songs from now on well before the poll and the question was opened. When I write that in the future I will prefer not to enter Sanremo songs from 2011 onwards, I don't say it with any displeasure or offense. In the end, out of the dozen songs that I play every year, only one usually comes from the Sanremo edition that just ended, but in the Italian music scene there are so many songs to play (and also entries presented at Sanremo when Italy was not at Eurovision such as Sentimento by Avion Travel, Il passo silenzioso della neve, or the songs I played ages ago for Puglia, which of course I will still consider). So despite my love for the kermesse, I have so many other options to consider, whatever the outcome of the poll.

I truly hope you will not depend your decision whether to send eligible songs on the oppinion of others. Can you even send a song that no one is offended by it's sole eligibility? We all cannot avoid to ex- or include songs from our voting, e.g. for the cause of a political message, the looks of the artist(s), because we think it's overrated or the background why it is eligible. We make oppinions about the songs the other send, even if we like it or not. And imo we should not stop sending some entries, because we think some people won't like it.
To make it clear, you can come to the conclusion not to send Sanremo songs from 2011 onwards, but I hope it will be your decision and not the pressure of a poll making your oppinion.

And you perfectly summed up that WV is always changing, not always for the good cause I'd say, but that's my oppinion and I still like being part of WV, so it's not too bad I guess^^

EDIT: If I couldn't make it clear. It's perfectly fine for me to be against Sanremo songs and even not voting them just for the fact what they are. I cannot influence any voting behaviour and I do not even try to intend. This post is just for Kris to be crystal clear about his song elections.
 
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