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How will Christer Björkman ruin this year's contest?

Mii11

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[MENTION=13275]Mii11[/MENTION] ^^ You said that Swedes are ashamed of their culture, exactly the argument nationalists/populists usually use. I replied that this is completely untrue and a myth, few people are as proud of their country as Swedes. However, being a nationalist isn't exactly cool. TV4 has during many years trying to claim back the Swedish symbols as the flag and the national anthem from the Nazis who abused them in the 80-90s. If you travel in Scandinavia in the summer you'll see the flag everywhere, on every summerhouses, cars, cakes etc. But sure, I guess Swedes have a more relaxed relation to these symbols compared to others. Shouldn't be mistaken for indifference though, I believe national feelings are more subtle. Midsummer feast is much more genuine and important than the national day and the king. You can say there are two sure things that make most Swedes cringe: Patriotism and religion.

svensk-supporter.jpg


This is perfectly OK though :lol:

Regarding Christer Björkman and the EBU plot - I give up

I don't care what nationalists or populists say. I am simply stating what I see. Just because you are obsessed with nationalism and populism (no offence), doesn't mean everyone who has different opinion to your one is nationalist or populist. If patriotism makes most Swedes cringe, then they should look up the definition of the word in the dictionary. It is important for every individual to have something that they can call a homeland. The lack of patriotism and emotional attachment to any land can be noticed in third culture children, who have to face many challenges. They often like to wander around the world in order to find a place which feels like home, but they fail because they have no emotional attachment to any place. They don't love any place and find it difficult to function in every single nation. They don't have national identity and do not have a group of people which they can consider their nation. I don't think someone who has not experienced that can understand how difficult it is to not be able to fit in any society.

Sadly, I am not surprised though that this is the case in Sweden. I knew a Swedish person who said that no one feels at home in Sweden, regardless whether they are natives or descendants of immigrants. Maybe he was lying. Nevertheless, what he said was very worrying in my opinion.

Anyway, I think we should end this off-topic discussion (even though it is very interesting :) )

It does actually.
EBU didn't even examinate this project with the San Marinese broadcaster.

It shouldn't. If it does, then EBU are a bunch of hypocrites who claim to support equality, but only when it is viable and profitable. If this logic of thinking was applied in other cases, then gay people would be excluded from discussion about marriage equality because they are tiny percentage of the overall population. It is ridiculous.
 

John1

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I don't care what nationalists or populists say. I am simply stating what I see. Just because you are obsessed with nationalism and populism (no offence), doesn't mean everyone who has different opinion to your one is nationalist or populist. If patriotism makes most Swedes cringe, then they should look up the definition of the word in the dictionary. It is important for every individual to have something that they can call a homeland. The lack of patriotism and emotional attachment to any land can be noticed in third culture children, who have to face many challenges. They often like to wander around the world in order to find a place which feels like home, but they fail because they have no emotional attachment to any place. They don't love any place and find it difficult to function in every single nation. They don't have national identity and do not have a group of people which they can consider their nation. I don't think someone who has not experienced that can understand how difficult it is to not be able to fit in any society.

Sadly, I am not surprised though that this is the case in Sweden. I knew a Swedish person who said that no one feels at home in Sweden, regardless whether they are natives or descendants of immigrants. Maybe he was lying. Nevertheless, what he said was very worrying in my opinion.

Anyway, I think we should end this off-topic discussion (even though it is very interesting :) )



It shouldn't. If it does, then EBU are a bunch of hypocrites who claim to support equality, but only when it is viable and profitable. If this logic of thinking was applied in other cases, then gay people would be excluded from discussion about marriage equality because they are tiny percentage of the overall population. It is ridiculous.

Why did San Marino complain about this new system of voting?
There is something wrong.
 

Mii11

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Why did San Marino complain about this new system of voting?
There is something wrong.

Because it is disrespectful to change something without multilateral agreement involving all the participants and members of the EBU, and then letting them know by announcing it to the public. Moreover, San Marino doesn't have big population and own phone system so it can't carry out valid televoting. However, the new voting system means that San Marinese votes do not have the same value as, let's say, Italian votes (Italy will give 12 points two times, San Marino only one time, the other 12 will be generated)
 

Dessi

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@LalehForWD and [MENTION=13275]Mii11[/MENTION]: There are so many more things to describe why we seem ashamed of ourselves (to others), but it is really a big minsunderstanding... I will only mention a few, cause I don't have the strength to write long essays... :rolleyes:

In Sweden we have so many things working for us as citizens that we don't need to tell everybody how good we are. :D
We are confident in ourselves due to many years (like 70 years) of Governal work with different laws... of work, parental leave, state health insurance and a lot of equality work. We haven't been to war in like over 200 years. We truly are lucky. So ofcourse we don't need to wave the Swedish flag everywere... We are confident in helping others if they need our help. xheart

Are we perfect? No, ofcourse not. But we know we can make a difference because our Government and our Authorities has trusted us with a lot of "rights" and want us to "tell them how it is"... And we do. We can make suggestions to the Authorities, to the Police, to the City Council and they will listen. This gives us security and it also gives us a deeper gratitude toward the Swedish system and the country. And this is the main part why we don't need to wave our Swedish flag. We don't need to PROVE anything at all. We are confident in our love.

Ofcours we still wave our flags... Like in sports and other games or competitions. :D

Mii11: And I do love my country like most Swedes do. And Swedes DO have something they can call homeland. It isn't just what YOU want it to be, or what you're used of. xheart
 

John1

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Because it is disrespectful to change something without multilateral agreement involving all the participants and members of the EBU, and then letting them know by announcing it to the public. Moreover, San Marino doesn't have big population and own phone system so it can't carry out valid televoting. However, the new voting system means that San Marinese votes do not have the same value as, let's say, Italian votes (Italy will give 12 points two times, San Marino only one time, the other 12 will be generated)

It'll be so sad to see San Marino withdrawing from the ESC.
 

Mii11

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It'll be so sad to see San Marino withdrawing from the ESC.

It will be. However it is still possible to change the situation. EBU can come up with alternative way in which San Marino can replace televoting results. Alternatively, EBU can come back to old voting system for now and then discuss it with all the members.
 

John1

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It will be. However it is still possible to change the situation. EBU can come up with alternative way in which San Marino can replace televoting results. Alternatively, EBU can come back to old voting system for now and then discuss it with all the members.

EBU advised San Marino to discuss with them in order to find a solution.
 

Stargazer

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I don't care what nationalists or populists say. I am simply stating what I see. Just because you are obsessed with nationalism and populism (no offence), doesn't mean everyone who has different opinion to your one is nationalist or populist. If patriotism makes most Swedes cringe, then they should look up the definition of the word in the dictionary. It is important for every individual to have something that they can call a homeland. The lack of patriotism and emotional attachment to any land can be noticed in third culture children, who have to face many challenges. They often like to wander around the world in order to find a place which feels like home, but they fail because they have no emotional attachment to any place. They don't love any place and find it difficult to function in every single nation. They don't have national identity and do not have a group of people which they can consider their nation. I don't think someone who has not experienced that can understand how difficult it is to not be able to fit in any society.

Sadly, I am not surprised though that this is the case in Sweden. I knew a Swedish person who said that no one feels at home in Sweden, regardless whether they are natives or descendants of immigrants. Maybe he was lying. Nevertheless, what he said was very worrying in my opinion.
I think the main reason why many Swedes see nationalism and/or patriotism as something bad and don't really feel connected to a Swedish identity or cultural heritage the same way Norwegians do (for example) is due to our lack of war the past 200 years, and the fact that we haven't really had to deal with occupation. Ever really. Unless you count that one Danish king Christian the Tyrant who only managed to hold power for one year in the 1500s. We never had that devastating conflict that other European countries had to endure (whether it was WWI, WWII, Nazi occupation or Soviet occupation), so we never really had to develop that sort of strong unifying bond to take comfort, pride and solace in. So since we never had to bring out the old nationalism and/or patriotism card for ourselves, we've only really been able to observe the negative aspects of it (in the form of nazism and neo-nazism for example).

I am obviously immensely thankful for Sweden's lack of conflicts historically, but I wish we were more patriotic and more tuned into our rich and amazing cultural heritage. It probably would have been healthier for Sweden today had we had actually had some conflicts in the past. Swedes have no problem being patriotic when it comes to sporting events and such, but I wish we could bring the same sense of self, pride and identity when it came to serious issues as well.
 

LalehForWD

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So, [MENTION=4597]Stargazer[/MENTION] you just felt the urge to continue a political off topic subject we just closed? xfacepalmxfacepalm Has it crossed your mind by confirming SD propaganda and shallow myths such as this is contra-productive to your aim and is actually anti-patriotic? To turn it around once again one could say: Who else than the Swedes would be spreading condescending and patronising opinions about themselves in an international context?
 

Stargazer

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So, [MENTION=4597]Stargazer[/MENTION] you just felt the urge to continue a political off topic subject we just closed? xfacepalmxfacepalm Has it crossed your mind by confirming SD propaganda and shallow myths such as this is contra-productive to your aim and is actually anti-patriotic? To turn it around once again one could say: Who else than the Swedes would be spreading condescending and patronising opinions about themselves in an international context?
I wasn't aware that the conversation was closed. I saw Mi11's post and wanted to respond.

And huh? What part of my post above is "SD propaganda" and "shallow myths"?! All the reasons I explained above have been brought up by historians and other in-the-know people previously. And what part of that post was patronizing or condescending?
 

LalehForWD

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I wasn't aware that the conversation was closed. I saw Mi11's post and wanted to respond.

And huh? What part of my post above is "SD propaganda" and "shallow myths"?! All the reasons I explained above have been brought up by historians and other in-the-know people previously. And what part of that post was patronizing or condescending?

Well, to recapitulate, the question brought up by @Mi11 was the claim the Swedes are ashamed of their culture, as I understand indicating a naive subservient attitude towards their national heritage. I responded that this couldn't be more untrue, but is often used by populists and nationalists in propaganda purposes. A purpose which to me is quite incomprehensible, but nevertheless pretty annoying and utterly damaging for the international image of Sweden. Then you came along and pretty much confirmed the shaming concept. Furthermore and totally uncalled for said I was a "cultural relativist" wherever that came from, but my guess is you projected some opinion or personal experience on me, pissing me off pretty bad. Awful discussion tactic if you ask me, especially since you didn't bother to follow up your comment. Just for your information, I would say most Swedes would agree with Birgitta Forsman in her FoF article "Kulturrelativism", which perfectly summons the concept and take away all misunderstandings and twisted interpretations. But again what has all this todo with Christer Björkman?
 

Franco

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You have to accept what Eurovision is – it’s not a singing competition or a song competition, it is music entertainment.
http://wiwibloggs.com/2016/04/16/christer-bjorkman-tells-uk-stop-mocking-eurovision/

And that's why he slashed the running order draw in 2013 and maimed the voting process this year. He doesn't understand that the thrill of the competition is an entertainment itself. He just wants to turn the ESC into a kind-of "MTV Awards" show.
Please, Sweden, ban him from everything ESC-related! xpray
 

anto475

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You have to accept what Eurovision is – it’s not a singing competition or a song competition, it is music entertainment.
http://wiwibloggs.com/2016/04/16/christer-bjorkman-tells-uk-stop-mocking-eurovision/

And that's why he slashed the running order draw in 2013 and maimed the voting process this year. He doesn't understand that the thrill of the competition is an entertainment itself. He just wants to turn the ESC into a kind-of "MTV Awards" show.
Please, Sweden, ban him from everything ESC-related! xpray

This is one thing that we all know already and while I'm outraged over it, I think another massive issue is that he said that Joe & Jake won't win. Now we all know that they won't win but for the Producer of this year's show to say that?? That's very very biased don't you think? But of course he won't be disciplined for it.
 

LalehForWD

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The OP obviously made this thread to mock the many haters on the forum, but I guess the irony was wasted on them. :lol: The thread turned out to be the perfect excuse to throw up that kind of typical random anonymous hate campaigns against a single person I despise so much on the internet. Shame on you hate posters! I thought I'd made this comment earlier in some sort defiant teasing manner, living up to my reputation of being "up everyone's ass at some point", but comment now is actually perfect to bring back the irony to you all. I'd say Christer and EBU triumphed yesterday in their efforts to reform the contest, especially when it came to the voting presentation. So

bjorkman650.jpg


Tack Christer!
 

Jacketh

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As I said previously, Sweden have probably left a lasting impact on the Eurovision from last night:

We will likely continue to see an A lister perform now.

Based on the reaction of the voting system, it has to stay. It was great!

So credit where credit is due. I was skeptical, but I enjoyed both Timberlake and the the voting system. Congrats.
 

Gabe

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As I said previously, Sweden have probably left a lasting impact on the Eurovision from last night:

We will likely continue to see an A lister perform now.

Based on the reaction of the voting system, it has to stay. It was great!

So credit where credit is due. I was skeptical, but I enjoyed both Timberlake and the the voting system. Congrats.

For a second I thought that you said you expected [MENTION=4544]A-lister[/MENTION] to perform! :lol:
 

Salmon

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For a second I thought that you said you expected [MENTION=4544]A-lister[/MENTION] to perform! :lol:

I’d strongly support that, but only if he’s forced to sing an English-language jury-friendly ballad.
 

Franco

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The OP obviously made this thread to mock the many haters on the forum, but I guess the irony was wasted on them. :lol: The thread turned out to be the perfect excuse to throw up that kind of typical random anonymous hate campaigns against a single person I despise so much on the internet. Shame on you hate posters! I thought I'd made this comment earlier in some sort defiant teasing manner, living up to my reputation of being "up everyone's ass at some point", but comment now is actually perfect to bring back the irony to you all. I'd say Christer and EBU triumphed yesterday in their efforts to reform the contest, especially when it came to the voting presentation. So

bjorkman650.jpg


Tack Christer!


Yeah, this time the evildoing wasn't too evil. But we must always remain vigilant against the Dark Lord of Eurovision.
 
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