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EUROVISION 2023 - General Discussion thread

Mainshow

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This.... it also bothers me that they are all sitting in the same room being allowed to talk to and influence each other.
Do you still remember that Russian juror telling the other jurors to vote for "Armenia" because her "husband was Armenian".

We have seen some years in which all German jurors had the same #1... out of 25 entries?

Seriously, the overall score of the juries might be interesting and somehow justified in the end (that's why I don't mind them being part of the Grand Final) but like you said @hijirio juries can be manipulated more easily and the consequences in the semi finals are brutal... like errors, political reasons or corruption within a few jury members can make entries qualify or fail.... whereas the telvoting is not that easy to manipulate (even if you're an oligarch and buying tons of sim cards and hiring people to vote for a country abroad is complicated and risky) and as mentioned above and stared by the EBU, effects such as diaspora/bloc voting are limited due to pots, two semis... only 1 country per semi would have been different in recent years...and juries made fun songs qualify as well (they don't want for quality entries just like that and generic The Voice leftovers aren't "quality". It's basic and soulless music for the general public)... I don't get all the comments by fans that Eurovision will turn into the epitome of kitsch and being camp (again).

They should have known better (by looking at the individual scores of the last editions).
 

mauve

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@Sean @Matt Could we open a thread for the schedule 2023 as we do every year?

Here the first dates since songs will be released already next week:

December: Sanremo acts'names released
December 1st: Ukraine releasing its songs; Vidbir December 17th
December 2nd: Estonia releasing its songs
December 19th: Songs for Benidom released
December 19th: Songs revealed
December 19th: FiK night 1
December 20th: FiK night 2
December 21st: FiK night 3
December 22th: FiK 61
 
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A-lister

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Girl I swear some ESC fans cannot understand what they read kldfgjdfhk

If grannies baking bread or men on hamster wheel qualify, it's not going to be because of the new system. They would have qualified regardless, and in the final the jury will be able to balance out their points just like they used to do. It is not changing the final outcome at all. As a matter of fact, the jury rarely impacted the qualification chances of a gimmicky act.

The main motive of the new system is to avoid fraud. Indeed, a pannel of 6 juries is so easy to rig. It blows my mind why it took so long to actually realize. I don't think the incident last year was the first one of its kind.

I'm not against the juries per se, I am radically against how they are being used at the moment.

There should be at least 50 juries, and a clear guideline to remind them this is not "the Voice of Europe" but a "SONG CONTEST!!"

xclap

I can't believe how many ESC fans are against democracy and supporting corrupt groups of people to have so much influence :lol:

Also, do people even remember the days when juries had all the power? It was dreadful, the more dated ballad the song was the better it got treated (and there was an extreme skewed bias for English and French on top of that). Eurovision was like literary 30 years behind any music trends (and not in a charming retro way, it was just pathetic), and we can see the juries didn't change much in their "taste", still being years behind and afraid of anything that is being different than pushed on Western adult radio.

Why do we want a contest so dreadfully dated and boring that it's being laughed at? People claim that it's the few gimmick acts that people laugh at, well in every year I have been watching ESC together with fans and non-fans alike, it's always those dreaded dated generic ballads that gets the most criticism, people literally leave the room. No one wants "The Voice of Europe" with 5 wailers after each other trying to recreate some 90's Mariah Carey ballad (but worse), yuck.
 
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Leydan

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xclap

I can't believe how many ESC fans are against democracy and supporting corrupt groups of people to have so much influence :lol:

Also, do people even remember the days when juries had all the power? It was dreadful, the more dated ballad the song was the better it got treated (and there was an extreme skewed bias for English and French on top of that). Eurovision was like literary 30 years behind any music trends (and not in a charming retro way, it was just pathetic), and we can see the juries didn't change much in their "taste", still being years behind and afraid of anything that is being different than pushed on Western adult radio.

Why do we want a contest so dreadfully dated and boring that it's being laughed at? People claim that it's the few gimmick acts that people laugh at, well in every year I have been watching ESC together with fans and non-fans alike, it's always those dreaded dated generic ballads that gets the most criticism, people literally leave the room. No one wants "The Voice of Europe" with 5 wailers after each other trying to recreate some 90's Mariah Carey ballad (but worse), yuck.

It seems to me that most (not all before anyone is triggered and come for me) who are against it are the ones who hate anything slightly fun or pop, and would rather sit through 26x Greece 2022, Portugal since 2017 and so on and are frightened that winners will start being like Keiino from 2019 and nothing 'risky' making it. I think that is a fair assessment given the comments many against it have made. Problem is as you point out, its a false narrative to follow given the televote are far more open minded than many of the juries are and in fact the rule change wont actually have a massive effect at the end of it, maybe just on border qualifiers.

Clearly they were motivated to do it by several juries trying to corrupt the vote this year. Now its easier to block that in a final against the semis where it could affect who qualifies in the end. At least final results can be altered post-contest. If you NQed it's too late to fix it. I can understand some arguments about diaspora voting, hell ours is hijacked by Lithuania and Poland every year, but the juries have done little to stop that and in fact with some can be just as bad.

And yes the 90s were particularly bad for that in the jury era. Nothing winning that represented the music trends at the time at all. A good example i can think of is Gina G who got a medicore result (still good but not for the UK back then) but still went on to be a chart success.
 

Storm

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xclap

I can't believe how many ESC fans are against democracy and supporting corrupt groups of people to have so much influence :lol:

Also, do people even remember the days when juries had all the power? It was dreadful, the more dated ballad the song was the better it got treated (and there was an extreme skewed bias for English and French on top of that). Eurovision was like literary 30 years behind any music trends (and not in a charming retro way, it was just pathetic), and we can see the juries didn't change much in their "taste", still being years behind and afraid of anything that is being different than pushed on Western adult radio.

Why do we want a contest so dreadfully dated and boring that it's being laughed at? People claim that it's the few gimmick acts that people laugh at, well in every year I have been watching ESC together with fans and non-fans alike, it's always those dreaded dated generic ballads that gets the most criticism, people literally leave the room. No one wants "The Voice of Europe" with 5 wailers after each other trying to recreate some 90's Mariah Carey ballad (but worse), yuck.

Who cares about the 1990s when not a single soul is advocating for a jury only system? The 50/50 system is precisely in place because both 'extremes' sucked.

Also please realize that your bubble is not representative.
 

Sammy

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Can we please stop calling a televote „democracy“ please?
democracy is about ideas, eurovision is about taste
democracy is about decisions to be taken in the future, eurovison is about songs that just happened
democracy is within a political system, eurovision is within an entertainment system (even if there might be politics in it, the system itself is not)
democracy is about electing human beeings, eurovision is about songs
in democracy, you have one vote, in eurovision you have 20 that you can give to different songs.
democracy serves to decide who governs a country for several years, eurovison serves to decide who the fandom is taliking about a couple of weeks
democracy demands a certain age, eurovison demands to have a cellphone
also: democracy is free, eurovision votes are to be paid for
the laws of democracy are set by the constitution which is quite difficult to change and requires transparacy and a referendum, the eurovision rules on the other hand are changed every now and then by people who have no mandate by the public and without the public having a say.

Giving a vote (e.g.) opinion on something does not make a process automatically „democratic“ just as not every place people eat at is called a restaurant.
 
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Mainshow

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I think they should change televoting so that people only have one vote, that would be a fairer system.

I hate this idea - Usually, I have more than a single favourite and I don´t want to stop voting for more than just one country in May.
Also, I distinguish between performances and songs as well (e.g. I also voted for Armenia 2016 despite basically hating the song... but Iveta totally surprised me on stage - I thought it was the most impressive performance of the night).
 

AlekS

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The EBU won't allow to shoot JESC rehearsals for the press/bloggers, live, in any form (even little clips of it in the background) for all social media platforms (TikTok, Instagram, Youtube etc.) and sites.
If you want to publish such footage (not live, including interviews with music playing in the background) you will need to have a letter of consent from the EBU received before the event.
The EBU will prohibit monetization of any content shot at any JESC location.
They will introduce the same rules at Eurovision 2023.
 

harey

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Seeing the video of the songs who would have make the final vs those who wouldn't have, I don't believe in a "joke entries effect". + there are max 2 songs each year who would have been impacted + we are not in the 2000s anymore, tastes change + Netta won anyway with a 50/50 juries system, a song that people call trash + the gf will still have juries so the final result won't be changed that much.
 

Gwendal

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Last weekend for ESC250 vote! If you're late like me, do not forget > HERE IT IS

My votes have kinda evolved within 12 months of time, but some things never change: I have my 3 seventies besties (and no, "Hallelujah" should NOT have won in 1979 :censored:), one Italian entry, one Ukrainian, and probably a bit too many Scandinavian tracks. And, for this year, #TeamCornelia !
 

Ezio

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qWzchYf.png
 

harey

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My vote is :

12 - Nous les amoureux, Jean-Claude Pascal (🇱🇺 1961) ;
10 - Playback, Carlos Paiao (🇵🇹 1981) ;
08 - Frauen regieren die Welt, Roger Cicero (🇩🇪 2007) ;
07 - Með hækkandi sól, Systur (🇮🇸 2022) ;
06 - 1944, Jamala (🇺🇦 2016) ;
05 - Eurovision, Telex (🇧🇪 1980) ;
04 - Fra mols til Skagen, Aud Wilken (🇩🇰 1995) ;
03 - OPA, Giorgios Alkaios & friends (🇬🇷 2010) ;
02 - Crno i belo, Kaliopi (🇲🇰 2012) ;
01 - intet er nytt under solen, Åse Kleveland (🇳🇴 1966).
 

Realest

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According to Leaks, Loreen will be dethroned this Year.

My Votes were:

12 Benjamin
10 Zdob si Zdub
08 Kalush Orchestra
07 Ochman
06 Mahmood + Blanco
05 Kristian K.
04 Amanda
03 Frans
02 Blind Channel
01 Gjons Tears
 

Ezio

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According to Leaks, Loreen will be dethroned this Year.


I am gonna take a video and watch it slomo mo mo mo mo mo....
 

Bobjan FR

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esc250.png

Mine. I decided to be nasty : Basically, i put loreen first just to annoy spanish fans who doesn't deserve the 3rd place -chanel and rtve deserve yes even the victory, but not them-, and alvan just to revenge of the 24th place, in normal time i wouldn't have put a song from the current year. But i bet chanel's gonna win anyway...

After, i decided, not two songs from the same country and the same year.....
 

Ezio

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Who are they? I need their Romeo profiles ASAP. They're so dustracting and I approve of that!

cnhllrG.gif
 
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