A fair voting system?

[heke1988]

Ysterday I came up with this idea for voting system:

Televote: 15/14-12-10-8-7-6-5-4-3-2

Jury: 12-10-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1

This system televotes has a little bit over 55% value and juries a little bit under 45%.

 

[HerrWaschbär]

I think the voting system should be completely in televoting, the European public should decide the winner and not be outvoted by like 160 people. You can't rate music objectively anyway. The juries tend to reward a specific formula instead of creative and unique entries quite often. But there are obviously problems with televoting as well, as there are countries, like e.g. Serbia, which get a lot of automatic points, because a lot of Serbians live abroad. However, we can alternate the televoting system to give cases like this less influence on the results. Completely eliminating any influence is not possible, of course.

Here, I did make an alternative televoting ranking giving 25 to the first place in every country down to one point for the 25th place. In the case of San Marino, I've used the jury results, because the televoting results are completely made up anyway.



There are some very significant differences. Albania fell from 10th to 21st, Armenia fell from 13th to 20th, Lithuania fell from 15th to 19th. All these countries are countries that usually benefit from very high points from only a few countries due to a lot of people with this nationality living in the other country and maybe also a few other reasons. Serbia stays at 24th, but they have placed very low in the final this year anyway. Unfortunately, we do not have the full semifinal televoting results, but I would guess that Serbia would have been replaced by Latvia in the final with this system and this might've been the only qualifier that would've changed. Other countries like Czechia, Germany and France improved their placements as a consequence, of course.

 

[rasmuslights]

I think the voting system should be completely in televoting, the European public should decide the winner and not be outvoted by like 160 people. You can't rate music objectively anyway. The juries tend to reward a specific formula instead of creative and unique entries quite often. But there are obviously problems with televoting as well, as there are countries, like e.g. Serbia, which get a lot of automatic points, because a lot of Serbians live abroad. However, we can alternate the televoting system to give cases like this less influence on the results. Completely eliminating any influence is not possible, of course.

Here, I did make an alternative televoting ranking giving 25 to the first place in every country down to one point for the 25th place. In the case of San Marino, I've used the jury results, because the televoting results are completely made up anyway.



There are some very significant differences. Albania fell from 10th to 21st, Armenia fell from 13th to 20th, Lithuania fell from 15th to 19th. All these countries are countries that usually benefit from very high points from only a few countries due to a lot of people with this nationality living in the other country and maybe also a few other reasons. Serbia stays at 24th, but they have placed very low in the final this year anyway. Unfortunately, we do not have the full semifinal televoting results, but I would guess that Serbia would have been replaced by Latvia in the final with this system and this might've been the only qualifier that would've changed. Other countries like Czechia, Germany and France improved their placements as a consequence, of course.

I still think we need the jury. Portugal and Spain in the bottom 3 is a crime when acts like Poland, Croatia and Moldova finishing in the top 10.

But I don't hate this point distribution since it does prevent countries with diaspora from being overrated.

 

[heke1988]

I still think we need the jury. Portugal and Spain in the bottom 3 is a crime when acts like Poland, Croatia and Moldova finishing in the top 10.

But I don't hate this point distribution since it does prevent countries with diaspora from being overrated.

What was wrong with Moldova?

 

[rasmuslights]

What was wrong with Moldova?

It didn't deserve the top 10. Way too repetitive and the performance looked kind of cheap.

 

[Ezio]

What do you think about Top 20 scoring? Ukraine would have lost the ESC 2016 to Australia however.

Eurovision 2016 - NEW Extended Voting System Simulation (Alternate possible voting system for ESC)

0:00 Intro0:24 Jury voting16:01 Jury result16:14 Televoting21:57 Televote result22:05 Full final resultThis is a scoreboard I made using Microsoft PowerPoint...

www.youtube.com

 

[MopManMoss]

The fairest system is one in which Ezio's televotes are worth half of everyone elses in Europes

 

[StephenMuckle]

I don't want to see juries eliminated at all. Be careful what you wish for. Anyone that remembers how bad the 2000s were knows this.

I think if the public vote is to be given more power, then it should be an online vote, where more points might be available but points are given based on share of the vote and you pick your 3-5 favourites. It's very clear that at times the points given in televoting are often disproportionate to how well they truly did with the public. And besides the televote has made some laughable decisions in the past and some televote patterns have been downright dodgy to say the least, particularly with songs tied to Philip Kirkorov (like Moldova in 2021).

I think for juries there should be people that represent the fan community, like from OGAE or INFE. Or have at least one jury member on the panel that specialises in different fields such as a staging director, vocal coach, songwriter, producer etc and they mark on that specific thing

 

[HarryUK]

There's the same argument every year and nothing happens though

 

[lasse braun]

without jurys we will get less musicquality.
and further the tradition still should count something.
the mix makes it interesting.

 

[Ezio]

We need more representative jurors. Not a guy like this dude from Austria nobody knows who says all the songs are meh. No one who originates from one country and lives and works in another country that is participating.

Jurors who love Eurovision, who represent the age of the performers, not being 20 years older. Who represent the genres better, not only pop and classic, when ESC brings also ethno, rap and rock. Who don't represent any special interest, albeit through record label affiliation or through collaboration, ans no country y bias.

EBU should form a vetting committee under the oversight of an audit firm.


It's unacceptable that jurors didn't vote for Måneskin and Shum in 2021, or Kalush Orchestra, or Käärijä. Instead they let Macedonia win in 2019, sweet moment for them, but with an old fashioned ballad. Sam Snyder with a been there done that Britpop and Loreen by 163 points over the runner-up, killing everyone else in the televote. Also Estonia was such a boring non-sensical show-off ballad that got too much jury love. I would have rather seen Georgia in the final and Lithuania getting those points.

 

[Ezio]

The fairest system is one in which Ezio's televotes are worth half of everyone elses in Europes

Very funny. Not really. But you tried

 

[aeon]

In Thailand the army dictatorship appoints 250 parliamentarians, that's 25%, so they can avoid the outcome the people want. The EBU appoints 185 jurors that have 50% of voting power to avoid the outcome the people want.

If juries are needed to prevent 'joke' entries, let juries decide who is excluded so a country can enter someone else.
However 100% televote.
Diaspora and block vote will always happen but that can be lessened if you limit televote to :
3 entries per phone;
each entry rank songs first to fifth, 5,4,3,2,1 points;
Make television presenters appeal to voters to be fair and judge songs not ethnic origin, politics or other reasons.

Running order should be a draw to be fair. Forbid props that cannot be installed timely.
Backing vocals to exclude any lead singers vocals to prevent lip-syncing.
Big 5 have to qualify like other entries (semis will get higher viewership to compensate for final loss if nq) and
A country that does not qualify for final gets 10% reduction of participation fee the next year.
Cost of televote related to price level of country. Poor countries, low price. Rest of World 50 cents a multivote for top 5.
Lower costs of event, no need to be so huge and expensive. A poorer country should be able to hold it if they win.

EBU to make a decision if Australia will be allowed to enter. They should have done that already.
If Australia is allowed, explain to televoters it's a legit entry but if it wins second placed gets first pick of hosting next year.

 

[aeon]

We need more representative jurors. Not a guy like this dude from Austria nobody knows who says all the songs are meh. No one who originates from one country and lives and works in another country that is participating.

Jurors who love Eurovision, who represent the age of the performers, not being 20 years older. Who represent the genres better, not only pop and classic, when ESC brings also ethno, rap and rock. Who don't represent any special interest, albeit through record label affiliation or through collaboration, ans no country y bias.

I read that about the Austrian juror who hates everything about ESC, in particular the entries. I was shocked and furious, how could ORF choose someone like that and why did this scumbag accept it just to spit on us all. What is going on, has that been investigated and did heads roll?
I grew up in Austria and still feel some connection. That really upset me and Austrian fans should do something that this guy never comes near anything to do with eurovision.

I support 100% televote with modifications of numbers as outlined in other posting.

 

[aeon]

It was clear to many ESC fans that Sweden was over promoted to the extent that it overshadowed all entries. The song was not particular original and neither were the LED sandwich screens. Because of that hype bordering on contest rigging many televoters choose only to vote for Käärijä in the final instead of giving some votes to other entries as well.

Australia came first in semifinal, Austria a close second. They hardly got any televotes in final, neither did Germany whose style would appeal to many Käärijä music fans. It was about stopping the juries to declare Sweden the winner that these and many others missed out on votes.

Solution?

• Limit televotes to 3 or 5 per phone but
• Make every vote ranking 1 to 5 with 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 points
• Abolish or minimise juries. If not abolished make them justify each placing according to given criteria and make ranking without communication to other jurors.

 

[MopManMoss]

Very funny. Not really. But you tried

Im just getting the last bit of flirting in before the off season properly begins

 

[Ezio]

Im just getting the last bit of flirting in before the off season properly begins

And I just try to bigu dugu lugu

 

[ekzuu]

Just ditch the juries, it's people's contest and people should decide
Even in other competitions its public who decides
It's the most fair and competition has moved on from fun acts and cmon Baila el chiki chiki is Eurovision classic, we can handle couple of these acts every year

But most of all stop changin the system every fcking year....
Like from 1975-2013 we had practically the same system and I want it back but only with televotes 100%
Making the voting system more and more difficult, changing it every year, making questionable changes like "Rest of the world vote" is just sad
I just want both semis and final 100% televote and 12, 10, 8–1
And I don't always agree with televotes, as I dont always agree with juries but thats life

Both 2015 Il Volo and especially 2019 KEiiNO would have been an amazing winners
Käärija I didnt like but I also didnt like some other televote winners like 2014, 2016 and 2017
Although when russia would return with its twisted propaganda brainwashing, juries will need to come back

But if they want to try something new it would be good to try 100% televote in finals also

 

[Ezio]

Without Russia, Belarus, Turkey and many Balkan countries, juries really seem more pointless.

 

[AndroZeus]

Without Russia, Belarus, Turkey and many Balkan countries, juries really seem more pointless.

... Somewhere, the Nordic countries are nervously shifting in their seats...