Possible new rule for Grand Final Televoting

[seriouslyscratchy1]

Many countries have been complaining to the EBU asking for a conversation about the voting system after Israel placed 2nd. We have no further information but there is a possible chance for a new televoting system.

 

[Harry]

While it is very obvious that the Israeli entry was most definitely not Europe’s favourite song (a quick glance at individual national charts would tell you that), I think they still got some form of “sympathy” vote which is wild to me given the current situation.

The EBU need to work out a way to ensure people are voting for music and not for a political motive

 

[Ferryman]

The EBU need to work out a way to ensure people are voting for music and not for a political motive

I think that's virtually impossible to achieve. The public will vote for a huge range of reasons, and political motives will certainly always part of that.

The EBU do have a responsibility to call out political voting by jurors. Some patterns are often very obvious, and the jurors are required to sign declarations which I presume state that they are assessing the entries free from political bias. I think that there is an opportunity for the EBU to 'name and shame' jury panels where appropriate.

 

[Slabsson79]

While it is very obvious that the Israeli entry was most definitely not Europe’s favourite song (a quick glance at individual national charts would tell you that), I think they still got some form of “sympathy” vote which is wild to me given the current situation.

The EBU need to work out a way to ensure people are voting for music and not for a political motive

And how can the EBU ensure the "correct" motivation for voting? That is impossible to achieve.

 

[Harry]

And how can the EBU ensure the "correct" motivation for voting? That is impossible to achieve.

Remove the political motive. But that’s my opinion

 

[Slabsson79]

Remove the political motive. But that’s my opinion

And how can you influence a person´s mind? You cannot do that. You cannot even read a person´s mind.

 

[Harry]

And how can you influence a person´s mind? You cannot do that. You cannot even read a person´s mind.

The political motive is there and plain to see

 

[Slabsson79]

The political motive is there and plain to see

Ok, last try: How do you distuingish between a person, who votes for Israel for political reasons (100%), musical reasons (100%) or musical AND political reasons (50%/50%)?
You CANNOT distuingish on this basis. Simple as that.

 

[Harry]

Ok, last try: How do you distuingish between a person, who votes for Israel for political reasons (100%), musical reasons (100%) or musical AND political reasons (50%/50%)?
You CANNOT distuingish on this basis. Simple as that.

Last try: I am in favour of banning Israel from Eurovision in the current climate. That removes the political element. Controversial among some, but in my view (as I’m entitled to), the right decision.

 

[Malagant]

The truth is many people are pissed at Israel being allowed to take part at all, after the Hamas terror attack and the subsequent war in Gaza, and they hate seeing a lot of people around Europe support Israel in ESC regardless of their quality entries. Perhaps Israel, the televote winner and thereby to many the true winner of ESC 2025, got sympathy votes yes but then again perhaps the juries deliberately ranked Israel low to ensure they would not win, so balancing the equation. Ukraine got a lot of sympathy votes too in ESC esp the first few years, so politics play a part as elsewhere in life. As others say, people will vote as they do for a million reasons and this cannot be controlled. Instead of focusing on the televote, the people's vote, EBU should look at the jury system in ESC which may have outplayed its role and influences results too much in many people's opinion.

 

[seriouslyscratchy1]

Maybe an idea for 1 person to have 3-5 votes each and can only vote for a country only 1 time

 

[Ferryman]

Maybe an idea for 1 person to have 3-5 votes each and can only vote for a country only 1 time

This type of idea is being widely talked about. ESC Tom is one proposer.

I think that only being able to vote for a country once is maybe a little restrictive though. I imagine that a lot of folk voting for non-political reasons would like to give at least a 1st/2nd/3rd ranking. That would be possible with six available votes.

 

[macmillanandwife]

1. Ban Israel.
2. If one doesn't happen, make the televoters rank their top 5 songs. They have the entire show to vote so they have enough time to vote.
3. Limit one vote per credit card and one vote per phone number.

 

[Mainshow]

It's kinda ironic that fans want to have a fairer system but that one would include less power to the viewers, less freedom to pick your own favourites for whatever reasons, less countries to choose from.

JJ even want the televoting to be "supervised".

If a country gets caught buying sim cards or making other people vote for them (by paying them), they should be banned but honestly, there's nothing wrong about the televoting. It is what it is...

You can't compare "quality" to Spotify stats.
Usually, people listen to male artists more.
Usually, people listen to up-tempo songs more.
Usually, younger people use Spotify more.

YouTube is still a thing in other countries (to listen to music).

And honestly, I voted for Albania like crazy but I think I even out on Espress Macchiato more often on Spotify since it's a braindead fun song (I disliked at first but I can't get it out of my head).

My Spotify listening behavior (which can count for the official charts) doesn't really reflect on what I voted for in ESC or even how my Top 10 looked like... there are songs I cherish a lot (e.g. Switzerland or Greece this year) but I can't listen to them whilst making dinner or brushing my teeth (I would opt for some uptempo tracks like Sweden, Malta or even Ireland instead).

I think it's partly concerning that people and artists want to reduce my rights as a TV viewer to what many times for my favourite entry because they didn't like the outcome.

It's good to investigate but it's also alright for TV viewers to vote for songs which aren't very high on Spotify or iTunes (something fans even brought up as well... like it was 2010 again xD)

 

[seriouslyscratchy1]

Technically doesn't the televote have a teeny-weeny bit more power:

Televote (50.66%) : Jury (49.33%)

 

[GermanBango]

Actually the EBU changing the voting system/rules for now seems like the only somewhat realistic measure that they would agree on. As we already said: they will never exclude Israel.
But this time they can also not just ignore the calls for change. Quite frankly there is too much of an uproar already. The opposition and unease have been picked up by many news outlets.

 

[Mainshow]

Actually the EBU changing the voting system/rules for now seems like the only somewhat realistic measure that they would agree on. As we already said: they will never exclude Israel.
But this time they can also not just ignore the calls for change. Quite frankly there is too much of an uproar already. The opposition and unease have been picked up by many news outlets.

That "unrest" will eventually wane.
It's always like that - media outlets usually call for boycotts or claim that "everything was unfair" if your country didn't perform Top 10 but at the end, they will be part of the contest anyway.

The only thing I would like to see: Getting 11 pts and 9 pts for the televoting. Thus, the entire Top 12 will be getting points from a country and the "difference" between #1/ #2 / #3 in televoting wouldn't be that "big" anymore.

You can't stop diaspora from voting or people voting for a country because of politics or sympathy.

 

[GermanBango]

That "unrest" will eventually wane.
It's always like that - media outlets usually call for boycotts or claim that "everything was unfair" if your country didn't perform Top 10 but at the end, they will be part of the contest anyway.

The only thing I would like to see: Getting 11 pts and 9 pts for the televoting. Thus, the entire Top 12 will be getting points from a country and the "difference" between #1/ #2 / #3 in televoting wouldn't be that "big" anymore.

You can't stop diaspora from voting or people voting for a country because of politics or sympathy.

I don’t know about that. It feels different this time around. Even the German media is reporting on the calls for a ban of Israel and/or a change in the voting rules. I am also not sure if the countries that raised concerns for two years in a row now will give up that easily.
What the EBU does with it is on a different page though. It might just be a toothless symbolic act like creating yet another special task force or so.

 

[Ana Raquel]

If a country gets caught buying sim cards or making other people vote for them (by paying them), they should be banned but honestly, there's nothing wrong about the televoting. It is what it is...

They never banned Azerbaijan or the dream team or the 2022 countries involved in that scandal (which is the closest we get from them being caught) so I don't think they will suddenly change their minds now

 

[ag89]

I have another idea, probably will not be liked, but anyway: juries scores stay the same, 1-12.

On the other hand, televote could be changed based on percentage of votes each country gets, instead of giving points to top 10. For example, Italy published it % rank for each country. Italy gives 58 televote points. San Marino won the televote with 34.16% which means 20 votes. In some other cases some country might win 10% and get 12 pts, but with this idea I proposed that country gets 6 votes, and not 12 points, simply because each country gets the amount aligned with % it received.

I hope it's not confusing. The benefit of this system might be a chance for more than 10 countries to get votes from televote. The downside might be another possible manipulation where one country gets huge %.

So, let's see Italian televote.
Current system:
12 San Marino
10 Albania
8 Israel
7 Estonia
6 Ukraine
5 Sweden
4 Austria
3 Poland
2 Greece
1 Norway

Total: 58

Potential system based on % of received televotes:
San Marino 20 votes
Albania 10 votes
Israel 7 votes
Estonia 4 votes
Ukraine 3 votes
Sweden 1 vote
Austria 1 vote
Poland 1 vote
Greece 1 vote
Norway 1 vote
Netherlands 1 vote
Germany 1 vote
Spain 1 vote
Iceland 1 vote
France 1 vote
Portugal 1 vote
Latvia 1 vote
Finland 1 vote
Luxembourg 1 vote
Lithuania 1 vote
Malta 1 vote

Total: 58

Why not the same approach with juries? Because juries are only 5 and there is no material for % approach.

For this to work we will need transparent overview of televote in each country from zero to hero.